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16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! #1375424
06/09/2012 21:12
06/09/2012 21:12
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
kj16v Offline OP
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kj16v  Offline OP
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London
The Coupe world is a small one and despite me trying to be all stealthy, some eagle-eyed people still noticed that I'd been selling off a few bits from my car and worked out was up to something. Well here's what I've been up to!

Just over 400 bhp (or just under depending on which graph you want to use, I don't care, there both good!) plus over 385 lbsft torque; a manly wodge of torque at a useable 5000-odd rpm - and all at a "measly" 1.5 bar!!

Oh and now running a 3 bar MAP sensor, for those who are interested.
click to enlarge

I'm now running a Turbonetics T3/T04E 50-trim (old 44-trim T04E hybrid gone to a new home). Plus some other minor changes, but the main part responsible for these results is what I've been banging on about for ages to anyone who'll listen: Cam selection and cam timing. You can bolt on the biggest, most expensive turbo and wind up the boost. But if the valves aren't opening at the right time its all wasted. After all, what is boost? It's just the air pressure measured inside the inlet manifold. It's what gets into the cylinders that counts.

This is the cam setup I'm currently running:

Inlet
Fiat Tipo 16V 5-door inlet cam

exhaust
Fiat Coupe 16VT inlet cam - yeah that's right, the inlet cam!

cam Pulleys
Voodoo Tuning adjustable cam pulleys
click to enlarge click to enlarge
Timed in with an eye towards strong, useable torque and power for fast-road driving.

Here's the full spec as it currently stands.
16VT
*Wossner forged 84.4mm pistons
*Forged conrods
*1.6mm MLS head gasket. Chosen for 8.0 CR and <1mm squish height
*Tipo 16V 5-door inlet cam, Coupe 16VT inlet cam (on exhaust)
*Voodoo Tuning adjustable cam pulleys
*uprated head bolts
*Tubular exhaust manifold
*Turbonetics T3/T04E 50-trim comp, st. 3 wheel, journal bearing
*Precision Turbo 39mm external wastegate
*screamer pipe
*3" downpipe custom-made (by me!)
*2.5" decat
*2.5" stainless mandel-bend exhaust system
*Siemens Deka 660cc fuel injectors
*Dual 255 lph fuel pumps
*8mm i'd fuel hose
*adjustable FPR @ 4 bar
*CG Motorsport 6-paddle clutch
*lightened + balanced flywheel, modified for extra clutch clamping force
*Weber Marelli 3 bar MAP sensor
*Stock Weber Marelli P8 ECU


So, is this currently the most powerful Coupe 16VT running the stock ECU?

I dunno and TBH don't care; it's very fast and I like it!

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375425
06/09/2012 21:14
06/09/2012 21:14

J
johnnybravoturbo
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johnnybravoturbo
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J



Well done,very impressive power

Turbonetics blower looks impressive on the graphs.
Power at 3k is great must be fun on the road.

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375426
06/09/2012 21:19
06/09/2012 21:19
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
kj16v Offline OP
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kj16v  Offline OP
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London
Cheers! I've had a real run of bad luck with this engine over the last year (long story for the Project thread in the near future!) so I'm glad to finally have some success.

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375440
06/09/2012 21:45
06/09/2012 21:45

N
nismo
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nismo
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N



nice result , well done mate .

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375447
06/09/2012 21:52
06/09/2012 21:52
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,904
Poland
deannn_20VT Offline
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deannn_20VT  Offline
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Poland
Well done KJ, good result!

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375464
06/09/2012 22:31
06/09/2012 22:31

J
johnnybravoturbo
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johnnybravoturbo
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J



Originally Posted By: kj16v
Cheers! I've had a real run of bad luck with this engine over the last year (long story for the Project thread in the near future!) so I'm glad to finally have some success.


I had the same with mine so know how frustrating it is but well done for sticking with it as many would give up.

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375471
06/09/2012 22:44
06/09/2012 22:44
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline
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Begbie  Offline
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I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Finally another 16vt in the 400bhp club


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375476
06/09/2012 22:53
06/09/2012 22:53

J
johnnybravoturbo
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johnnybravoturbo
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J



More torque than you beggars.

Grudge match needed at Santa pod laugh

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: ] #1375492
06/09/2012 23:51
06/09/2012 23:51

M
Marco20ValveT
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Marco20ValveT
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M



Originally Posted By: johnnybravoturbo
More torque than you beggars.

Grudge match needed at Santa pod laugh


Ooooo the challenge had been set....

All we need is Barbz vs JBT laugh

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: ] #1375520
07/09/2012 07:40
07/09/2012 07:40

J
johnnybravoturbo
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
J



Originally Posted By: Marco20ValveT
Originally Posted By: johnnybravoturbo
More torque than you beggars.

Grudge match needed at Santa pod laugh


Ooooo the challenge had been set....

All we need is Barbz vs JBT laugh


laugh not again.he never admits defeat.

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: ] #1375536
07/09/2012 08:10
07/09/2012 08:10
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline
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Begbie  Offline
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I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Originally Posted By: johnnybravoturbo
More torque than you beggars.

Grudge match needed at Santa pod laugh

By 23 lbs cry

Seems I need to turn the boost up then laugh


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: Begbie] #1375541
07/09/2012 08:31
07/09/2012 08:31

M
Marco20ValveT
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Marco20ValveT
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M



Originally Posted By: Begbie
Originally Posted By: johnnybravoturbo
More torque than you beggars.

Grudge match needed at Santa pod laugh

By 23 lbs cry

Seems I need to turn the boost up then laugh

Champion responce!!! laugh

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375550
07/09/2012 09:05
07/09/2012 09:05

H
h2ypr
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h2ypr
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H



Congrats mate - what kind of dyno is that?

Ross

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375558
07/09/2012 09:46
07/09/2012 09:46
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,895
New Zealand
Saint Offline
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Saint  Offline
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Posts: 1,895
New Zealand
Well done KJ, great torque figure, now you have that 3 bar MAP you need to use a bit more to get over 400ft/lbs

Glad you like the 50trim, its an excellent compressor.

What have the head ports had done?



Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: Saint] #1375594
07/09/2012 11:05
07/09/2012 11:05

D
doug20vt
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doug20vt
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D



that must be great fun to drive on the road, loads of torque all over the rev band, cracking result

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375706
07/09/2012 19:31
07/09/2012 19:31

J
johnnybravoturbo
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johnnybravoturbo
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J



I see also that you chose the leaner route laugh

That's where the power is.
(when I say lean its not lean just leaner)

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375715
07/09/2012 20:05
07/09/2012 20:05
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
kj16v Offline OP
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kj16v  Offline OP
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Yeah it's on, Begger's! lol laugh It's about time I actually put this car to some use instead of it leaving in my garage for months!

H2ypr: Cheers. It's a Dynostar

Saint: The injectors are pretty much max'd already! I might see if I can raise to 1.6 or 1.7 bar. Don't know if I'd actually notice an extra 10 lbsft on the road though.
Head, nothing of major effect; 3-angle seats on inlets, radius'd on exhaust. I have a couple of business contacts who can do really good gas flow work. Would loved to have got the full works don, but I'm a poor man!

Last edited by kj16v; 07/09/2012 20:16.
Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: ] #1375718
07/09/2012 20:13
07/09/2012 20:13
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
kj16v Offline OP
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kj16v  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,725
London
Originally Posted By: johnnybravoturbo
I see also that you chose the leaner route laugh

That's where the power is.
(when I say lean its not lean just leaner)


ATM it's about 11:1 at peak torque, going to 11.5 at peak bhp. When I finish off mapping it'll be 11.5 all the way. It would be nice to go to , say, 12:1 but the EGT always climbs rapidly. It's always been like that. Seems to be thing with 16VTs.

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375719
07/09/2012 20:19
07/09/2012 20:19

J
johnnybravoturbo
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johnnybravoturbo
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J



Really?
I found the 20vt doesn't mind hitting 12's consistently.
Only around 70 degrees variant from 10.5to 12.0 but still below 700 degrees peak.
What did you find when hitting the 12's on the 16vt?

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375773
08/09/2012 00:36
08/09/2012 00:36

T
tom_snelling
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tom_snelling
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T



Nice one, now give it some track action!

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375789
08/09/2012 07:26
08/09/2012 07:26
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,895
New Zealand
Saint Offline
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Saint  Offline
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Posts: 1,895
New Zealand
that a .63 stage 3 KJ?


Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1375913
09/09/2012 01:33
09/09/2012 01:33
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
knight7660 Offline
Competition Level
knight7660  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
well done KJ good result


LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife)
Wine red VIS FOOFY
Audi RS4 B7
Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1376240
10/09/2012 13:43
10/09/2012 13:43
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
kj16v Offline OP
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kj16v  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,725
London
Tom: I intend to!!

Saint, That's right; .63 stage 3. 'F1' wheel, which apparently is what all late T3/T04X's come with.

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: ] #1376347
10/09/2012 19:58
10/09/2012 19:58
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
kj16v Offline OP
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kj16v  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: johnnybravoturbo
Really?
I found the 20vt doesn't mind hitting 12's consistently.
Only around 70 degrees variant from 10.5to 12.0 but still below 700 degrees peak.
What did you find when hitting the 12's on the 16vt?


I always found -so far- that hitting 12's sees EGT shoot up to 900. Normal driving EGTs are 600-700. Seems that 16VT's run a lot hotter than 20VTs!

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: kj16v] #1376428
11/09/2012 03:56
11/09/2012 03:56

J
johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
J



I have never mapped a 16vt myself so don't know the characteristics behind the live data.
I tried all sorts with mine including altering the ms on the injectors as suggested by a forum in America to reduce egt's but to no avail .

Mine typically runs hotter due to it being stroked.

Anyway be nice to see a head to head with Beggers.
He doesn't like being beaten though.

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: ] #1376456
11/09/2012 08:39
11/09/2012 08:39

M
Marco20ValveT
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Marco20ValveT
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M



Originally Posted By: johnnybravoturbo
.
He doesn't like being beaten though.


yes he does!!!

but he normaly has a pvc suit on.

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: ] #1376527
11/09/2012 11:11
11/09/2012 11:11

D
doug20vt
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doug20vt
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Originally Posted By: johnnybravoturbo
Mine typically runs hotter due to it being stroked.


ooo so that's whats going on when you working late laugh

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: ] #1376528
11/09/2012 11:12
11/09/2012 11:12

D
doug20vt
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doug20vt
Unregistered
D



Originally Posted By: Marco20ValveT
Originally Posted By: johnnybravoturbo
.
He doesn't like being beaten though.


yes he does!!!

but he normaly has a pvc suit on.


laugh brilliant

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: ] #1376629
11/09/2012 19:18
11/09/2012 19:18

J
johnnybravoturbo
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
J



Originally Posted By: doug20vt
Originally Posted By: johnnybravoturbo
Mine typically runs hotter due to it being stroked.


ooo so that's whats going on when you working late laugh


You have a keen eye to see I was still at work at 4am.

Re: 16VT homebuild: Hello 400bhp+ club! [Re: ] #1376684
11/09/2012 21:49
11/09/2012 21:49

D
doug20vt
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doug20vt
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that's what you call dedication laugh

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