My coupe is a 20VT6.
Originally wearing a W plate.

Like many I had bought a coupe and never driven one when it was fresh from the factory so I had no real idea how one could or even should handle.
I know that big lump of iron and aluminium sits out at the front and drives the front wheels. I also thought the under steer was understandable and acceptable.
I wasn't so enamoured of the torque steer when under boost.
I budgeted to improve the suspension as part of the yearly maintenance budget.

I used the forum search engine and voraciously read as many posts on handling as I could. It became apparent that as a car that I use most days coilovers would not really suit, I was also unhappy with the procedure for using Koni shocks on the front, why have to saw the top off of the old strut? It quickly became apparent that the Bilstein B6 shock and Eibach springs seemed to be both popular and offer the right level of compromise in terms aesthetics, handling and comfort. Luckily I had fitted eibach springs last year so that was around £200 I wouldn't have to find.
I was intrigued by the comments regarding an uprated rear anti-roll bar and added the cost of that to my refresh.
The refresh was done in stages (for cost purposes, over three weeks) and here's what I found:

Stage 1 General maintenance
Replacement drop links and wishbones. Torque steer was reduced, but no real, measurable effect on handling.
I still found myself turning the wheel to get the angle right for sharp bends then having to turn it further, body roll was fairly well controlled but understeer was there in droves.

Stage 2 Rear Anti-Roll bar
The 22mm whiteline rear anti-roll bar. A couple of weeks later, this was fitted and it has been the modification that has made the most difference. Fitting it was a "mare", according to the garage that did the work. In the end they bit the bullet and made new brackets as they weren't happy with the idea of re-using the original ones.

On the drive back, I turned right at a big roundabout, classic under steer expected but no, I entered and discovered I could tighten or loosen my line purely on the throttle. It was a revelation. Suddenly the coupe felt less like a heavy GT style car and more like a nimble sports car. Every corner became a new challenge. Cornering is far improved. I had had an EVO6 FMIC and Pro-alloy SIP fitted at the same time, and remembered the ARB had been fitted only when steering and I remember thinking "shit, thats tightened that up".

Stage 3 New Tyres
I could feel myself needing to take the next step in the improved handling challenge and decided to go for new shocks, someone kindly posted an ebay link to a pair of new front Bilstein B6s (from Alternative Autos, who have told me they will not be stocking Bilsteins for the coupe in future).

Whiile I waited for these to arrive and for my garage to have time to fit them, I decided to change the tyres, (I had Pirellis on front and one Federal and a Kumho on the rear (inherited from when I bought the coupe). Initially I had set my heart on Toyo R1-1R tyres in the 225/45x16 fitment.
But then I read a post where someone recommended Event-Tyres, who could supply and fit tyres at your place of work. They didn't have R1Rs though only T1Rs, with the weather being cold, and having read warnings about using and even storing the R1Rs in low temperatures, I decided to go for the T1-Rs (£90 each fitted). A well equipped van turned up at work, with a pair of air jacks the fitter soon had the wheels off and tyres changed, he was an ex Coupe owner, and even used a torque wrench to tighten the nuts. Overall a very good service and one I would recommend. He did mention that changing the top mount bearings would make sense.
After a hundred miles or so, the T1Rs have lost their mould release gel and are offering a good level of grip. It's too early to say if they are a massive improvement, but they needed changing anyway

Stage 4 - The front brakes
The car had originally came with OE front pads and I had put new M-Tec discs on all 4 corners together with OMP fast road pads at the front. I had never really felt that the braking was as good as it should be. Sometimes the OMP seemed wooden and seemed to me to lose grip/retardation, especially when you needed them suddenly.
So I added a set of Carbotech XP8s to the list of stuff that would be fitted at my local garage. These were supplied by Ian from Carbotech Carbotech ( 01768 885000) for £200 delivered as part of an ongoing Group buy.

Stage 5 - Bilstein Front Shocks
When I collected the Coupe, the new yellow B6s front legs could be seen if I crouched down low, the B6 shocks at the front have made a big difference, the nose of the car dips less under braking, even with the XP8s fitted, bumps in the road no longer feel so severe, that crashiness has gone.

Stage 6 - Rear Shocks
I was that impressed that I have now ordered Bilstein B6 for the rear of the car. And they are due to be fitted on 2nd April at which point the refresh will be complete.

So the finished item how does she handle?
Understeer? Whats that then? since the above, she corners like on rails and I have had a few other cars struggle to keep up round the twisty bits.

It really is like night and day, torque steer just no longer exists and under braking she just stays straight and true. When I collected her after the B6, top mounts and XP8s were fitted, the steering tracked and with the mechanic's warning to "read the bedding in instructions" for the XP8s ringing in my ears, I ventured out onto the nearest dual carriageway.

A few high speed to 10MPH stops later and it's fair to say I love the XP8s, they have immense stopping power, they have great grip from cold but when warm, well lets just say I have felt ABS kicking in on a dry road. They grip immensely well, even from cold, if you are unhappy with your Coupe's braking try these or the XP10s.

The Coupe feels far more modern in terms of handling, cornering can be controlled on the throttle and the XP8s can kill your speed far faster than you would ever believe. I think I achieved all that I hoped to when starting this journey. I find myself far happier with the handling and road holding of my coupe.

Rear Anti-Roll Bar an essential upgrade?
While all the items listed have made a difference, the one real stand out item is the rear ARB. It totally alters the Coupe's handling in corners, understeer is largely eradicated, my confidence in the car's grip has improved. For £130, it is a bargain.

Sorry if I have droned on, but I thought that any other owner in the same boat may find my experience useful.
So to reiterate:
New Droplinks
New front arms/wishbonaes
New top mount bearings
New front shock absorbers
Eibach springs
22mm Whiteline rear ARB

Rear shocks and ARB from Julian at Balance Motorsport a very helpful man.
Tyres from Event Tyres
Work on car completed at A&R motors the standard of workmanship is very high, and they have not been at all phased by the Coupe, I guess when you drive a car like this and are restoring a Model A Ford, then you can tackle the Coupe. If you're local I would definitely recommend them.

Now would anyone like to hear about the Evo 6 FMIC and Pro _alloy SIP?

+1

Good read for anyone about to refresh!

Great post Mick, and with my spec identical, I'd be inclined to agree

Fantastic post Mick.

Good info. Thanks

This is pretty much the same path that I am also in the process of taking.

Great post. truly informative.

Only thing I would suggest is some camber bolts on the front struts

Thanks Mick. Nice info.

Forgive me for my ignorance, but what advantage will they give me?

Mick

Ignore the above.
The Forum search came up trumps (as per usual) and a pair of Camber bolts are now on their way to me. Will feedback on any improvement

Well done Mick. Good info there.

More grip on the front end on turn in.

Go for -1.3 degrees of negative camber on the fronts, and also half a degree of toe out.

This with all you have done already will give ou as good as it will get on a road coupe.

You don't mention a strut brace on the front end, do you have one?

Thanks for the info, will definitely try that, yes I have an upper Brace

Great post - agrees with my assertion that an uprated rear ARB is by far the single biggest handling improvement you can make (don't bother with the front ARB, it simply cancels out some of the gains delivered by the uprated rear)

Have to disagree with Suba though - Half a degree of toe out with -1.3 degrees camber will give you a great track car, but it'll be nervous on the road.

My camber was uneven, so I've used camber bolts to get it to about -1.4 degrees and then I've played around with the tracking to get the stability back. I started at parallel - the turn-in was amazing, but the car never felt planted, especially in (very) fast turns.

Step by step, I've moved half a mm further into toe-in and now I'm at the maximum recommended of 2mm in - still doesn't feel as solid as I'd like, so I'm going to back off to -1 degree camber and see how that feels.

Time for a lower brace - makes quite a difference (but don't bother if you have to drive over lots of speedbumps)

Nigel,

thanks for the info, very useful. Unfortunately I have to pass over two of those awful "pillow/cushion" type speed bumps twice a day! So the lower brace might not be ideal. Though I am tempted, I don't recall seeing any of the Stainless steel ones (you developed?) for sale recently, so maybe the mild steel Alfa 156 one might be worth a try?

Whiteline rear arb group buy?

On the subject delphi or oe? also poly bushed wishbones for fast road use? Or stick to standard rubber. Also a best place to buy would make this thread even better for lazy people like me.

I quite liked the toe out....but then I was trying to get a track setup that was OK for the road....not the other way round.

I would play around with the camber. 1.1 to 1.3 degrees negative is OK on the road, anymore and it's a bit extreme.

I have one of these, with eibach springs. If you go over speed bumps do it at 10-15mph depending on their height and straddle to get over the pillow single ones.

I've clouted mine on roads with lots of camber as well as on speed bumps to the point where I'm unable to get a socket into the recess. It will need cutting off!

They do make a nice difference, but you will hit it occasionally. Guildford was particularly bad for camber on its roads.

I pulled a wishbone bolt out on a bad road with that lower brace, just be careful on anything less than a B road. They certainly do help to tighten up the front end though.

A welded subframe might be a better option, all the rigidity with no clearance issues.

To be fair, I've never touched my lower brace - I'm careful over pillow type speed bumps (two wheels on, two wheels off - never try to put wheels on each side)

Suba - I agree - I think my camber is a little too extreme for road use, so I'm going to back it off to about 1.2 degrees

And, as I've said before, if you have the tools for it, modify your lower brace so it doesn't sit so low.

I very rarely hit mine as it's not even the lowest point anymore.
The lower brace is such a huge gain so it's worth the effort i think! Especially with -1.5deg camber.

Mine:


&

&


Never mind the GTV-braces.

Per, you are the man! Tell us more about modifying the brace.

Is that the OMP brace? I had had one sat in it's packaging for years - maybe now is the time to fit it.

Do you have some more details on how you modified it?

EDIT:

Just found this:



...over here: http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1265915&page=2

That's it!

OK after a week of driving with new front end, here's my opinion:

The back end really does need those new B6 Dampers, while the current ones will bounce less than three times after being compressed, the difference when passing over a bump is marked between the front and the rear. So roll on Tuesday

The rear anti roll bar continues to impress. Car handles so much sharper than before through bends of all descriptions, I am more then ever convinced that this is one upgrade that everyone should have.

The Carbotech pads are awesome, though the low speed "squealing" isn't, But the retardation? Well I have had the ABS kick in on dry, shell gripped surfaces.
The braking is now far more confidence inspiring. The black dust left over the rims far less so. Would I recommend the XP8s? Without a single doubt.

Toyo TR1 tyres, with 180 miles since fitting they feel scrubbed in and despite the 4 seasons in one day weather conditions, they have impressed. Grip is amazingly better than the Pirellis I had on front and the weird mix on the rear end.

The front end is strange, feels very planted but the ride surprisingly compliant, an almost unbelievable mix of Grip, ride comfort and looks (She looks low). Torque steer eradicated.

Eibach Camber bolts and Rear B6 still to fit on Tuesday 2nd April.

Addendum.
If planning your own suspension refresh, remember to consider Joe/ Country Cruising's welded front suspension set up, I wish I had.
Joe also has rear subrames. Again, this is something to factor in to the cost of your rebuild.

Where are the camber bolts from?

Sourced mine from ebay, for approx £22 delivered.

Nice one cheers

Careful with camber bolts....do not buy cheap ones....if they snap it won't be good.

That was for Eibach bolts

Sweet, as long as genuine ones.

Good point, they came in Eibach box, with instructions and product code 8.81250K though they do say "made in China" on them, I suspect they are genuine but these days it can be hard to tell

ebay link I think he supplies the OMP strut braces and pads.

Most importantly tighten with the prescibed torque!

Just about to refit mine - is the torque 55nm or 55lb-ft? - can't remember ( I believe its stated on the box)

yep - otherwise snappy snappy!

Well rear dampers fitted and discovered near side Radius Arm bearings need replacing, so kit ordered from alt autos.
Also rear sub frame bushes look a little worn so PU ones on their way.

Once they're fitted refresh will be complete.

And you thought it felt sharper with the work you've done already, imagine how it's going to feel with new rear bushes and bearings

Looking forward to that

The last stage gets completed on Thursday with new rear radius arm bearings and PU subframe bushes.

Even though I can feel that the rear is not as tight as she should be at present, I am still enjoying the handling. BUT one thing I noticed is tonight on my way home from work, the wife asked me to pick up a KFC (warm dead greasy bird, hooray) and I got the 2 drinks in one of those grey cardboard holders (the one for two cups).

I expected it to fall over on drive home (2x 90 degree left turns, 2 x turn rights at small roundabouts and a sweeping chicane followed be 2 lefts )

Well I never realised just how flat she corners now as the two drinks remained upright for the whole journey!

Roll on Friday

Hopefully less roll on Friday.

Very informative and useful write-up Charlie.
I've now got a much clearer picture of suspension/ handling and will definitely go for rear ARB now. As for shocks - I'm liking the idea of losing the crashiness over bumps.

Question:
Does anyone know if I can I fit Bilstiens with standard springs without any issues with handling?
Also I don't want to lower the car as I have a very bumpy lane where I live so - will fitting Eibach springs lower the car at all or are there different sizes of Eibach springs ?

Yes you can use Bilstiens with standard springs...I did in my last coupe with no issues.

Eibach springs will lower the car approx 25-30mm....

Only one size of Eibachs - they give approximately a 25mm drop

Clearly, the ride on Eibachs will be firmer, but a bumpy road shouldn't cause you too much of a problem. However, it does mean that you would need to pay attention to the damping - poor damping on Eibachs on a bumpy road would be sheer hell

Just collected the car, and have had the following done:

PU bushes fitted to subframe
replaced corroded brake pipes,
fitted new handbrake cables
Replaced brake fluid
new rear radius arm bearings (turns out one had collapsed).
Front camber bolts fitted (No real need, as with the B6 and Eibachs, the camber was 1.1 degrees negative).
4 wheel alignment

And to say I am pleased would be an understatement, the PU bushes from Ferrarist were not only reasonably priced but have made a real difference. They are available on ebay, search for Fiat Coupe Bushes and you will find them

The Coupe is now the Sports car I hoped she would be.

And the damage for everything is...

Well just for the work above, it was around £350 including parts and labour.

(thats obviously not including the B6 Dampers, rear ARB, Wishbones, drop links and Top mounts) Just for the stuff in my last post

Not easy ti fit without proper press - any trouble or hassle during fitting process????
We can make fitting easier with different design, but it will compromise quality and total price.

My local garage have lots of experience with PU bushes, they have a 10 ton press and placed tubes underneath during pressing, with lots of grease, they had no problems whatsoever, almost easy they said, they did say they were very well made though.

As for the car, I have just taken it out in the Spring sunshine and wow, its amazing, I found a small roundabout and tried going round it to check the understeer, nothing at all, I could control where the nose pointed just using the throttle and it remained totally flat, in long sweeping curves she is totally planted and I reckon that I am taking bends at higher speeds by approx 5-10MPH. It's the "feel" thats so hard to describe as the ride is both firm but not jarring.

I have not even got close to the limits of grip yet and hope not to, but its best to describe it like this, anyone who drove a Mk5/6 Ford Escort and then a Focus Mark 1 was blown away by the handling, well thats the only way I can describe the difference. The car itself feels lighter and more nimble and it remains true under both acceleration and braking.

I found the Coupe to feel a bit "Stodgy" before, oh it was fast in a straight line but around town it felt a bit out of it's depth in traffic light duels with Saxos, (I am not in any way suggesting or condoning road racing btw), but now she feels so different.

If you were looking to do the refresh here;s a rough guide to prices:

£299 for Bilstein B6 Struts
£230 for rear B6 Dampers
£135 for Whitline ARB
£200 for Front wishbones, drop links and top mounts
£25 for radius arm bearing
£79 for PU bushes for rear subframe
£199 for the Carbotech XP8s
£23 for Eibach Camber bolts
£180 for JBT's Crank Pulley

Labour was probably around 9-10 hours or so, my local garage charged me £35 an hour. Biggest job labour wise was the rear bushes and radius arm bearings.


The overall effect, if you had seen me on my late afternoon drive, you would have seen me grinning from ear to ear..

Cool

What impact have all the modifications had in relation to the oversteer whilst trail breaking? I know it isn't an ideal thing to do but I am hillclimbing my car this year and can tell that there are a couple of places I could probably go faster if I could brake deeper into the corner but the back end is too light when hard on the brakes to enable it. That is the handling issue I would like to sort.

I haven't tried it under trail braking yet, but once I have I will feedback, carrying on braking into the steering for the corner is an art that i have not yet mastered fully.

Cheers Charlie! I'll look forward to your feeback, but take care, the Coupe is the only car I have spun on the road and that was trail braking. I'm more used to it now and know when to expect it, but the back can be pretty quick to go I think. Get it right, however, and it is great fun!

Hmmm, yes I think carrying all that weight over the front wheels must help to make the coupe a bit unbalanced, and I am aware there could be more of a tendency to lift off oversteer with the slightly bigger ARB, (though not as bad as with the 24mm)

Besides I am a cautious Charlie

306 gti was a bit of a bugger for this - but driven 8/10ths had amazing throttle balanced handling

TVR Griff unfortunately has a bit of a bum in the air weight transfer issue when heavy braking and caught out with a change of direction - eg avoiding item on motorway at night with other carriageways partially occupied - had a 3 lane tank slapper just after I got it - bit of a wake up after handling from an M758 944 Turbo!

So are we saying that the Coops handling can be raised to between the above cars whilst retaining a decent ride? - Also that roundabout style understeer can be neutralised without the risk of spinning in the wet when throwing it in (balanced!) - that torque steer can be reduced so far as not to be an issue?

Whats the general consensus for the absolute essentials to make the best improvement / £ (bearing in mind these are generally £2k cars!)

Read the post from page 1 and you'll get a pretty good idea.

One place you do get liftoff oversteer at is this corner at Nürburgring:

(Scroll to 1.19...)

http://youtu.be/F8YZxvureE4

I thought the whole idea of the rear ARB, and camber on the front etc. was to make the coupe tail happy rather than understeer, just be ready to put the power down when the back starts to go.

Where I am hillclimbing mine this year there are some tight turns with not much run off so good balance would be the ideal (as always really) - I don't mind oversteer particularly but it is better where there isn't a fairly solid bank nearby. I guess it is that thing about smooth being quicker and I have times to beat not just fun to have!

A very informative post, well written. I have a question though, did you use powerflex style PU bushes throughout or go with the OE ones that came on the new wishbones and leave the old ones on the anti-roll bar?


I just found pg 2 and answered my own question I believe. Apologies

I know the OP already had the Eibach springs but what would they cost to add to the shopping list of this handling optimisation project?

[edit]

Found the answer on the forum.

Very informative thread. Thank you.

Has anyone tried other springs? I notice Apex springs are less than half the price. Less than half the quality.

If it is a case of eibachs or nothing i will wait and pay the extra.

Craig

Apex are known for their crashy ride. I'd save the extra and go with the recommended tried and tested Eibachs.

doing this my self full suspension refurb only difference is eibach front and rear anti roll bar and konis all round

Does anyone have any recommendations to which part should be poly bushed first to increase handling? Wishbones?

I'd save up Nd do the the lot at once that way your not going to pay more on labour due to having to take things apart over and over again when fitting other poly bushes down the road.

Plus you will feel all the benefits as a package