Can somebody explain to me why this hybrid (the latest version of my current bike) ... costs £500, while this road-bike (such as a chap might purchase on a cycle-to-work scheme) costs £1,200.

If I go with the Defy 5 (that is, the entry level model) it gets the price back down to £500, but what makes an entry-level road-bike the same price as a top-of-the-range hybrid? So far as I can tell the difference is flat bars and slick tyres. Surely there must be more to it than that.

If I want for the top of the range Defy, verses the entry level one, would I really feel a difference, or is it all just marketing flam?

Should I just go back to eBay and start bidding on Raleigh Grifters?

Nooooooo, at least a chopper but a bomber if you can stretch to it.

On a serious note I have nothing to contribute here as my current steed is an £80 eBay special (albeit alloy framed) mountain bike with the highly recommended upgrades of skinny tyres and non suspension forks. Instant hybrid and bank account win.

Sorry Andrew you should know better. There are bikes and cycles. You shoud never title a cycle thread as a bike thread..

Well - there seems to be the world of difference between the quality of components used to put them together. I suspect the hybrid weighs a kilo or two more than the Defy (which is a lot).

I guess the bottom-of-the-range road bike is as good as the hybrid. That hybrid is still relatively cheap as hybrids go. Road bike shifters are generally more complex (and therefore more expensive) than simple trigger shifters and brakes.

You will definitely notice the difference between the Defys. Whether you would notice the difference between each step, I don't know. The cheap defy has some reasonably nasty shifters and brakes on it. The top one has a funny mix but the shifters are only 1 down from Shimano's very best. If you wanted good middle-of-the-road, go for one equipped with Shimano 105. They're functionally pretty much as good as the better ones but not as expensive. Finally I'd say that £1200 is top-dollar for an aluminium-framed bike. If you shopped around, you could pick up a heavily discounted carbon-framed Ultegra equipped bike for cash. Only use the Cycle-to-work scheme if you don't have the ready cash available. What you save in tax you lose in buying choice.

Go back 15 years and a very good road bike was £500 and £1000 bought you a dream machine. Fantasy machines were £3k. Back then I could ride two loops of Richmond park on a Sunday morning and not see another cyclist.

Forward three successful UK Olympics cycling medal hauls add carbon technology and now entry level is £500, average machines are £2k and you can pay over £6k if you want. My last Sunday morning ride round Richmond park a few weeks back was hell as the road was so full of cyclists that progress up and down the hills was actually dangerous.

Cycling is "on trend" and so the prices and quality of stuff rises. As always be careful what you wish.

Well my interest in cycling is more down to trying to get fit after giving up smoking (10 weeks fag-free now) and not having a car for 6 weeks - I promise I'm not jumping on the Olympic bandwagon

I did, and my Specialized Secteur Elite is still hanging up in the garage...

Cycle to work is limited to £1000 for what its worth. If you can its worth putting this in as your request to your employer. You only get charged on the final redeemed value and you cant add more of your own money.

The certificates are valid for a while (6 month I think) so you can wait for a sale if needs be.

I spotted this trend as well, bit more digging and you'll probably find yourself looking at Ribbles/Planet X websites, shortly followed by bike forums warning you off buying them...
Well done on the fags btw, I've been clear a year next month and it’s brilliant! I found my weight stabilised around about month 10...keep it up!!!

Couple of points on this. Certainly with our scheme you CAN add more money - I did and others have - I think it's the "Cyclescheme" scheme.

Secondly, often sellers will only sell bikes at RRP on the scheme as they have to pay the scheme a fee (typically 10%) so they're not much interested in discounting the bikes as well. Again, I say "often" but I've never known anyone get a discount. Last time out my employee did over 120 bikes.

Since the tax man mandated residual values, the appeal of the scheme has really diminished.

Some bike shops will sell to you at a 'sale' price but with 11% added on, this is the 10% for the cyclescheme plus 1% for something or other...
Some don't charge the cyclescheme amount back to you at all, Evans for instance. I know some on here don't like them but they have some good prices.

I am surprised you were allowed to add value as this causes a conflict with ownership/hire. Employers can offer more than £1k if they have their own Consumer Credit Licence though so maybe it was that? I don't think you can add more money to purchase above your certificate value.

I got both my bike and accessories discounted. The bike was 15% off RRP and I was allowed 3 for 2 on the accessories that were in a promotion on top of any price reductions. They even honored the discounted online price for my SPD shoes which were on sale online but not available in store. In total I got £200+ worth of extra kit due to discounts.

Worth investigating if nothing else.

I think it's just at my risk if I add money in. As far as the scheme is concerned, the bike is only £1000 and it's all theirs.

Yours sounds like Halfords which is different again.

Adding 11% accounts for the fact that taking 10% off something is different from adding 10% back

£1000 bike - 10% = £100 off leaving £900

Add 10% to £900 is only £990
Add 11% to £900 is £999 (nearly £1000)

Andrew, it all depends on what sort of riding you want to do. If you will only be on tarmac and want to go fast - get the road bike, if you want to use the bike on roads, trails and towpaths etc you should go for the hybrid. Hybrids also have a much more relaxed riding position so you can take it easy and enjoy the scenery.

As MRS said the cost difference comes down to shifters/levers, derailleurs and weight (of frame and components). Lightness costs.

The Defy range has been specifically designed and priced at the cycle to work scheme purchasers, they are the best selling C2W bikes where I work. The 2014 black/red defy 1 is lovely, nice alu frame with carbon fork and seat tube to smooth out the bumps.

But, if you are considering a top price Defy, you should look at the entry level TCR. A step up from the Defy in every way. The 2 mechanics at work ride TCR's and refuse to entertain positive discussions about any other bikes!!

Best thing to do is try them out and see what you like, get to your local bike shop and try them. Also the 2014 bikes are around now, so good discounts will soon be had on 2013 models.

As an alternative to a hybrid you can also look at cyclocross bikes which are the road bike version of a hybrid.

Yes MRS mine was through halfords scheme but I looked at them all when considering if I should go for it and they all looked the same. I think technically no one should offer to allow personal additions even if some shops allow it. Most schemes specifically state its not allowed.

Not sure what the benefit of adding cash would be anyway as you wont get the tax relief on it which is one of the main benefits.

The benefit is quite simple - you get to buy the bike you REALLY want rather than some CTW £999.99 special. You still get the tax relief on the £1000 so the benefit is identical.

You won't find many (any?) local independent bike shops discounting bikes on CTW. One of the additional benefits of CTW is that it's an opportunity to support the local small bike shops. I can believe places like Halfords will discount as I'm sure they have greater margins and, if it's their on scheme, they'll get the money one way or another.

Well I do two kinds of riding:

1. At weekends I go out with the family, which means 10-15 miles at speeds that are rarely into double figures, plus I have a child seat on my bike and as my wife hates riding on the road we do a mix of tarmac and good gravel/packed earth tracks. The old Giant CRS 2.5 I have is fine for this sort of thing.

2. During the week I've started commuting more by bike and when I get the chance I go and do longer routes by myself. we're still only talking 10-20 miles, but my routes are getting longer as I get fitter, they're exclusively on-road and, as I live in Northumberland, there's a fair amount of hill-climbing involved. The CRS feels a bit old and clunky for this stuff.

So, ideally, I'd like to keep the CRS as the family bike and get something new to commute/play on.

Fair enough MRS but my point being as you said earlier if you go outside of the scheme you have more choice and (possibly) better scope to pick up a bargain. Tax relief on the £1k does still apply but you need to balance that with the restrictions especially if some retailers are adding premiums.

Any support for small local bike shops will typically be after purchase as most of the schemes seem to involve one or more of the large chains.

Andrew do you know who runs your company scheme? From what you say it looks like a Road or a Cyclocross bike may suit best. I know a fair few here use Cyclocross bikes for commuting as they are easier to add mudguards etc to due to larger clearances.

Nobody runs our scheme - if I want to buy a bike on the CTW I first of all have to sort out the paperwork to add my company to it.

So, who should I go with?

Andrew, have you thought about hiring a road bike for a few days? I think you'd be hooked but it would allow you to try one of your rides on a road bike for comparison.

It has been interesting watching Begbies remarkable cycling progress once he got his road bike, I was into road bikes in my teens and watched the mountain bike revolution at its start, much to general bemusement as most of them never mounted much more than a pavement let alone something hilly. Much like the 4x4 chelsea tractor trend of late.

Cheers John

Stabilisers gone, but are you riding off the pavements yet?

100 miles done and I fell off the bike at a junction on Monday. Thought I got away with the 'you will fall off the bike with SPD's myth'

I do hope it was the classic of pulling one foot out and then falling the other way

Afraid not John Pulled up to a junction, looked at the traffic, yep, lots of cars coming so will need to stop, looked forward, then down and then just fell sideways with both feet still in the pedals. One somewhat slightly bruised ego followed

Well after 100 miles, fair enough... We'd ridden London to Dover and had done around 95 miles when we watched the guy in front of us put his hand out onto the car beside him to stop himself falling over due to tiredness. Shame he put his hand into an open window and would have completely disappeared inside the car had the bike not still been attached to him

I use medium float SPD-R's quite tightly wound-in.
Before coming to a stop, I de-cleat but then re-centre without clipping home.
If all clear, I push it home.
If I need to stop, I'm free ..

Getting back to the main topic, I'd suggest you only blow your C2W wad on a proper road bike.

If you waste it on a hybrid, you'll have nothing to spend when it dawns on you that performance is everything.

Also a hybrid is a better second hand deal.
A 2 year old hybrid can be bought for 30 - 35% of its RRP. A carbon road bike would hold about 60% of RRP after 2 years.

Rather than start my own thread - I could really use some advice on a new bike.

I've decided to get rid of my first bike (claud butler san remo) and I'm looking for an upgrade. Are there any carbon bikes out there for under £800 or will I be looking at carbon forks only?

Been advised to try PlanetX and Tredz as they both offer 0% finance options (helps as we are saving for a new house at the moment). Or there's ebay of course..

Good second hand is your best bet. You might be able to build something yourself by shopping around hard but, assuming that's not something you want to do, second hand is often the best route.

I'd agree with that. Also, carbon forks are a nice feature, but not a significant enough reason to change.

I got 2 or 3 bikes on my eBay shopping list (Boardman Team Carbon, Focus Cayo, Mekk Poggio) and started eBaying.

Finally landed one for £500 and then had to break the good news to the wife who promptly went out and bought 15 pairs of shoes to compensate.

Contrary to the horror stories, the Cayo I got was in mint condition and still is 4000 miles later. I guess in general people take much better care of a treasured road racer than a daily hack.

Or it has been lifted

Definitely not in this case. The seller provided the original receipt, manuals, the lot, but it is a fair point.

The Airlite was the same - deal conditional on proof of ownership - in this case the invoice from the online deal.

Thanks, I've seen a few from Ribble that I like, but I also like the idea of building my own so will have a look at good frames as well.

Worth mentioning that I have been offered a Cannondale Synapse Sora (think it's 2011) for £350. Pretty much standard other than paddle shifters fitted and in what looks like great condition. Has a triple chainset - which will be much nicer than the standard double on my bike, which I'm finding tricky on some hills. Seems like a good deal?! Even if it's to go on with...

Yes - my Cayo (eBay second hand) was exactly the same - Along with spare tubes and all sorts. All in the original Wiggle shipping box newly serviced and in perfect nick - £700

Back in the day (2009) they were only about £900 new.

I had a look at a BikeRadar Synapse Sora review.
It looks like it is well made but a tad on the heavy side.
I've had a Tiagra 9 speed setup on one bike and it has been fine.

One option on your current bike may be to fit a cassette with a few more teeth on the lower gears for the hills?

I quite like 50/34 on the front, 28/12 on the back. Gearing is a little short for any more than about 32mph.

Since everyone is jumping on the band wagon about biking, is it worth starting a new thread about various questions to do with biking? I've got a couple more I would like to ask!

Decided it's worth going to view this Synapse Sora tomorrow and if it feels a little bulky I may leave it.

Yeah I changed the original 13/26 on my CB to an 11/28 to help with the mountain around the corner. The RD didn't like it at first, took a bit of fiddling.

If I ever decided to keep it then I'd want to look at a 50/34 or triple for my new commute.

I would definitely advise buying a road bike over a hybrid. They're just so much more efficient to ride and in my experience, the majority of people who buy hybrids for their first bike end up wanting a proper roadie in quick order.

A road bike can be adjusted with spacers, compact bars, etc. to make the front higher and more comfortable with less flexible backs. You can also buy 'sportive' orientated frames which have a taller head tube to start with. Adding some 25mm tyres such as Continental Four Seasons will allow you to cope with any terrain that a hybrid can.

With regards to the CTW scheme, I paid extra on top of the £1000 limit to get the bike I wanted. It's not strictly allowed, but hey ho. The bike shop order the bike you want, but fill out the quote form for a different bike which costs £1000. You then pay the difference up front and the remainder comes out of your salary.

Agreed. Get a road bike with comfy geometry and you'll be onto a winner.

If you want to go off road, get a proper mountain bike.

I have a friend with:

a full susser mountain bike
a newfangled"commuter" bike with hub gears and weird brakes
a proper road bike
an old mountain "rat bike"

All angles covered

If a pile of cash turned up on my doorstep today, I'd upgrade my winter/commuter bike to one of these...

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/bbd/road-t...BBRC&bike=1

That's actually one of the few I've looked at. Have read some reviews on this Synapse sora and overall they're pretty good. Not ideal for me by any means, but for £350, I'm tempted to get it anyway as seems a very cheap and I could always sell it on. Only issue is the weight of it and whether I want a triple not compact. Be interested to know how much the 'save' system on it helps reduce road vibration or if it's just a gimmick

I'm not sure that the Synapse is a great idea. It's certainly cheap but I think you'll buy cheap buy twice. The weight and quality is more likely to put you off riding rather than encourage you. Personally I'd aim for Shimano 105 and settle for Tiagra (already quite a step in quality) and go for the lightest bike I could get. I don't think you'll need a triple unless you're pretty unfit. Worst case, get a different cassette for the rear (12-28 or 12-30 (with Tiagra)) and you can get up some pretty nasty hills.

<Pricks up ears>

What's that I need to buy, now?

The cycle from Prudhoe to Hedley-on-the-Hill (check it out on MapMyRide) almost killed me last week.

A triple chainring (3 gears up front - the smallest of which is called a "granny ring")

You can, however, change the ratios on the back by replacing the cassette (of gears) to something with a larger spread. Bikes are typically supplied with 12-25 (teeth). By going up to 28 or 30, it gives you a shorter lowest gear which will help you up a steep hill. For NL I'll be fitting a 12-23 and I have a Standard chainset (bigger gears up front).

Speaking of hills, how do you cope with them? I tried and keep a steady cadence when going up them, but I'm always finding I need to keep going into a lower gear to keep the cadence going once I start ascending the hill.

Take this hill for example, I wasn't expecting this and being 3 miles long, I was knackered by the end of it (coming down the other side was fun, but that's not the point ). I was in the saddle for all of it, but how do the guys at the top of the leaderboard get such good average speeds on it?

Not sure if this is either healthy or true but a mate who used to race swore by Iron tablets, he said that it allowed the blood to carry more oxygen and therefore increased his performance...

I rode with some fantastic climbers last Sunday. They were tending to attack the beginning of the climb by getting up out of the saddle, hands on the hoods of the brake levers and pedalling at quite a high cadence, but with a very steady smooth action (not bobbing up & down like I would). They retained quite a high cadence even when back in the saddle and both smashed the Golf course hill KOM .


Then they had to wait as they'd dropped me

I've tended to grind away at hills from the saddle with a lowish cadence. I don't attack, but ease into a correct work rate. It is more efficient that way, but I then can't get out of the saddle easily. Been trying their high cadence attack techniques and I'm knackered within about 20 seconds.

Iron is required in hemoglobin and myoglobin which is used to transport oxygen around the body. Deficiency of iron can lead to Anemia which will impact performance. Unless he had low iron or hemoglobin levels I doubt he was gaining anything.

Beetroot juice is the answer if you can stomach it.

Hill climbing is a personal thing go at your own pace but try to keep the pedals spinning, thereis no shame in using the lowest gear. To do it faster just takes training an practice.

My Boardman is quite high geared so does make hills a bit of a struggle. On the shorter hills i tend to attack in a high gear and aim to get to the top without changing gear. On the longer hills I do drop down quite early.

Why? Beetroot isn't particularly high in Iron. Most Diets should provide enough iron, especially if it includes eggs, red meat, nuts, green veg, tofu, beans, whole grains etc. Dark Chocolate is probably more palatable option.

I've seen beetroot mentioned before on a CH4 program (Health Hospital IIRC) and they had a dozen or so amateurs who did velodrome cycling. They got them to do a set number of laps and produce a time. They then got the riders to drink beetroot juice for a couple of days and do the same laps, 11 of the riders produced faster times over the same number of laps.

Same program also suggested that drinking milk for hydration was better than water.

OK I was assuming Bockers was suggesting Beetroot juice for Iron rather than an overall enhancement. It think its Nitrate (or Nitrite?) thats the key in that case.

Climbing is very much personal preference. Some like to grind away in a high gear, others like myself spin a higher cadence in a lower gear. Some general tips include putting your hands on the tops of your bars (not just the hoods) to open up your diaphragm and getting out of the saddle periodically to exercise different muscles. When you get out of the saddle, change down the cassette a couple of sprockets and back again when you sit down. When climbing while seated, I make an extra concerted effort to engage my glutes and power through the hips which seems to help.

Recently, I've been climbing on the drops more often and found it easier/faster as you can recruit your lower back muscles, but you need good core strength to maintain it.

Finally, there is no substitute for time on the bike and suffering hard.

I find grinding in the lowest gear and swearing works well.

Cheers Dennis, very insightful from you as always

I follow that approach, too. I've noticed that it doesn't matter how fast I hit the bottom of the hill, I'm still grinding and swearing in a hundred yards.

The biggest problem is that you can't change down a dérailleur under load, so if you have the wrong gear selected, there you stay.

Anita's approach is to get off when she runs out of gears. Her method has its points...

Just ease off the load and you can drop a gear Neil

For hills it depends a bit on what you're trying to achieve. If it's a faster time, then a combination of seated and standing can be quick. I tend to set my fastest times seated but then I rarely stand for anything other than a short bump or a full-on vertical climb. To conserve energy on a long ride, whack it into the lowest gear early, stay seated, a spin up - if you start to get short of breath, go up a couple of cogs and stand and just rock side to side gently up.

Unquestionably the way to get most power down, but I agree it works too on the steepest gradients (where a granny gear would be the other option).

Decided against the synapse sora.. you were right.. quite heavy plus he hasn't looked after it all that well. Frame was nice but it sounded pretty rough. Time to either find a good frame and build my own or possible look at a new bike

If you're feeling particularly brave, you could buy an open mould carbon fibre frame direct from China for around £300 - £400, which are every bit as good as frames found on bikes costing up to £3000 or even more. You do take a slight gamble with this option, but thousands of people have done this without problems.

Whack on a 105 groupset for around £380, some solid wheels and tyres for £200, decent finishing kit for another £120 or so and you have a cracking bike for just over a grand which is the equal of anything costing twice that. Plus, you will learn a hell of a lot buiding it up and you'll have something unique.

I'm thinking of doing this myself for a winter bike and considering the following frames:

FM066SL (Cervelo R5)
FM098 (Kuota Kharma / Specialized Venge)
FM029 (Trek Madone)
MC053 (Scott Foil / Orbea Orca)

All of these frames are open-mould designs and not replica knock-offs a la 'Chinarello' (google it), although they do bear some resemblance to current well known frames, which I've typed in brackets.

I managed to get a BeOne 2011 frame from Chain Reaction Cycles in their sale. It was reduced from £1400 to £399 so you can see the mark up on Carbon frames. Building a bike is easy and fun but i would always get the headset fitted by a bike shop, same goes for the bottom bracket if it is a press fit version.

I built Charlie a Scott CR1 SL. The frame for that was only £499 (reduced from £2000) - had stuff in the garage to complete it but could have done it for under £1000

as someone who until recently was walking about...and training...inc heavy deadlifts etc!..with a blood count of 6 as opposed to 14..potentialy fatal I was told..i can vouch for the importance of iron!!. I was given two lots of intravenous iron and now feel like a new man training wise. couldn't walk up hills without seeing stars a few weeks ago, now going for 45min runs etc...

looking to buy a road bike myself...viewing one today

Ended up buying a year old as new voodo agwa hybrid bike. It's only been used half a dozen times and has decent spec, shimano gears, disk brakes etc...just going get it serviced on Monday then will be 15 mile uni commute every day , fitness should hugely benefit...

Nice one. Make sure you eat well to supplement your exercise.

Oh dear

How many did you buy then Alexis

None, I don't think they look that good when up close.

I got mine from Flandria.

Next you'll be putting the GB flag and your name on the rear window of the Metro?