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Re: Standard injector flow... #144768
18/10/2006 14:46
18/10/2006 14:46
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
DavidL Offline OP
Enjoying the ride
DavidL  Offline OP
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
Hi Doc,

Thanks for the compliment, I just happen to have a friend who has a ASNU system, so that I can test and play with it when I'm bored

Actually, I've tested 10 (ASNU allows me to test 8 at a time) and selected only the best 5 to be installed onto my coop However, 2 of the injectors failed to operate at a pressure higher than 4 bar and 2 sprayed significantly lesser fuel at high operating speed(3 ms) Lucky me If it weren't for the tests I've conducted, I'll never know what killed my coop

Cheers,

David
ps: I'll post pics and results of testing at different pressure and duty cycle

Last edited by DavidL; 18/10/2006 15:02.

Re: Standard injector flow... #144769
18/10/2006 15:10
18/10/2006 15:10
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
Forum veteran
Nigel  Offline
Forum veteran

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Very interesting - if I had the time or the money I'd be tempted to chuck the 20VT injectors back in and see what they can give. We already know my engine is capable of almost 400bhp on pump fuel, so it would be interesting to see how close I can get without the bigger 16VT injectors.

Having said that, the bad low speed running has now been sorted, and Iceberg tracked down the low speed fan issue, so the ECU won't play around with the maps as much when the temps go high (apparently when the ECU sees over 100 degrees it changes the maps to preserve the engine)


[Linked Image]
Re: Standard injector flow... #144770
18/10/2006 15:26
18/10/2006 15:26
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
JohnS Offline
I need some sleep
JohnS  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
Quote:

Just did a search on Google and this thread came up I am intrigued to see that you have flow tested the standard injectors and found them to be capable of 440cc at 100% duty




The standard measurement for injectors is at 80% duty/ 3bar so that doesn't suprise me. Almost all tuners say don't go above 90% duty. That's why I am one of the people who believes you can make 380+BHP out of the stock injectors.

You may be able to work out your duty if the acr reader gives you some info.


Former low boost hero - 616BHP@1.5 bar. 2.4 20VT RIP
Re: Standard injector flow... #144771
18/10/2006 15:56
18/10/2006 15:56
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
DavidL Offline OP
Enjoying the ride
DavidL  Offline OP
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
Nigel,

It's interesting to know that the ecu will cripple the engine when the coolant temp goes higher than 100. With Barnacles widget, it seems to suggest that the high speed fan kicks in when the coolant temp reaches 103 degrees, do you konw when does the low speed kick in?

I think with 20VT, leaning the cylinders a bit will not cause detonation that easily, coz our phase transformer (aka valve timing variator) shuts off a higher revs (4800 for stock chip and 4000 for novitec), leaving the intake to open and close later (8-54), so the piston is already traveling down at higher revs, therefore, even if there is a few knock, it will not be as devastating as the normal car- where the intake opens before the TDC (huge intake and exhaust overlap).Furthermore, the exhaust is already closed(40-0), so even if the restrictive exhaust results in higher exhaust pressure, this pressure will not be a problem at high revs, when the timing variator closes


Re: Standard injector flow... #144772
18/10/2006 16:16
18/10/2006 16:16
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
DavidL Offline OP
Enjoying the ride
DavidL  Offline OP
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
Quote:

Quote:

Just did a search on Google and this thread came up I am intrigued to see that you have flow tested the standard injectors and found them to be capable of 440cc at 100% duty




The standard measurement for injectors is at 80% duty/ 3bar so that doesn't suprise me. Almost all tuners say don't go above 90% duty. That's why I am one of the people who believes you can make 380+BHP out of the stock injectors.

You may be able to work out your duty if the acr reader gives you some info.




Plus 1
I also think that the OE 20VT injectors are capable of much more than that.

As John mentioned, most injectors are tested at 80% duty cycle and 3 bar unless specified. And based on the fact that the injectors, no matter how great they are, they rely on the energized solenoid to retract the pintle from the seat in the injector...and then the return spring will seat it back after the solenoid is de-energized and ready for the next operation. This is a mechanical process and takes somewhere between 0.5~2 ms to happen, so if you're trying to operate the injectors at such a limited time, you will need to give it the right time to do so. That's one of the reasons why injectors are said to be maxed our if you reach 80~100% duty cycle, the injectors are recovering from the last event when you try to ask it to open and close again...it just can't happen. However, for our 20V injectors, I've noticed that the injector's duty cycle will always go be at around 95-99% at WOT, but anyway, I do agree that it's best to keep the duty cycle down to less than 80% for the highest flow required.

Aside from the above mentioned issue, there is also the problem with the amount of fuel that you need to inject into the cylinders in such a short time. Though the injection sequence is initiated some degree before the inlet valve opens, there is always the possibility that some portion of the injected fuel at high revs, only enters the cylinder in the next intake stroke. This is the tendency with injectors operating at near to 100% duty cycle, so again, it is best to use match the injector flow with the power output of the engine so that it will never exceed 80% duty cycle.


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