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tyres
#1479805
19/03/2014 21:29
19/03/2014 21:29
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sheep
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sheep
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I just picked up some ridiculously cheap 16 inch alloys and need some tyres. Im currently running 195/50/15's now im stepping up to 16's do i go for do i go for 205/50/16, 205/45/16 or 205/40/16's.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1479806
19/03/2014 21:41
19/03/2014 21:41
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Big_Muzzie
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Big_Muzzie
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1479810
19/03/2014 22:03
19/03/2014 22:03
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nismo
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nismo
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1479874
20/03/2014 12:02
20/03/2014 12:02
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PeteP
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His coupe is a 20V so fitting 20VT sizes may not be the best idea for his car as both will increase the gearing by around 6%. 205/45/16 will be closer to the original diameter. Here's a tool to calculate the effects of changes.
16VT and X1/9 1500
We must all do our part for the planet. I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1479899
20/03/2014 13:57
20/03/2014 13:57
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PeteP
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Same weight, same deflection. Always assuming that all tyres of the same dimensions have similar sidewall stiffness.
Last edited by petep; 20/03/2014 13:59.
16VT and X1/9 1500
We must all do our part for the planet. I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
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Re: tyres
[Re: PeteP]
#1479912
20/03/2014 14:38
20/03/2014 14:38
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szkom
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Same weight, same deflection. Always assuming that all tyres of the same dimensions have similar sidewall stiffness. I'm not sure I follow your assumptions, the tyres are different centre diameters and widths. Your calculation was based on an unloaded tyre. As I've stated before you need to consider the tyre loaded. As you've calculated an unloaded difference of 6% I'd be inclined to think Fiat would've kept the effective rolling radius the same between na and turbo.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1479928
20/03/2014 16:29
20/03/2014 16:29
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 353 Leicester
Dan
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I just picked up some ridiculously cheap 16 inch alloys and need some tyres. Im currently running 195/50/15's now im stepping up to 16's do i go for do i go for 205/50/16, 205/45/16 or 205/40/16's. Surely 195/50 15s are incorrect for the 20vna - that equates to 576mm diameter which is way off the 20vt diameter of around 610. I think the original 20vna tyre size would have been 195/55 15 205/50 or 225/45 as stated here already are the correct sizes for 16" wheels on the coupe.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1479930
20/03/2014 16:42
20/03/2014 16:42
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GrahamL
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GrahamL
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20v NA had 205/50 R15 as standard, 20vt had 205/50 R16 or 225/45 R16.
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Re: tyres
[Re: szkom]
#1479932
20/03/2014 17:02
20/03/2014 17:02
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PeteP
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[As you've calculated an unloaded difference of 6% I'd be inclined to think Fiat would've kept the effective rolling radius the same between na and turbo. But Fiat don't, it is close, but not identical. Looking into it further it appears that Sheep's car has the wrong size tyres fitted on his present 15" wheels. The tyres Sheep has on his car are 195/50/15. From the handbook figures the 16v runs 195/55/15 which gives a diameter 596mm, the 16vt is 205/50/16 = 611mm a difference of 2% If, as I believe is the case, the correct 20v tyre size is the same as that of the 16v, then I would be fitting 205/50/16 on the new wheels..
16VT and X1/9 1500
We must all do our part for the planet. I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1479936
20/03/2014 17:15
20/03/2014 17:15
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GrahamL
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GrahamL
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205/45 R16 would be closer and 225/40 R16 would be identical to the original.
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Re: tyres
[Re: PeteP]
#1479939
20/03/2014 17:24
20/03/2014 17:24
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szkom
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But Fiat don't, it is close, but not identical.
But back to my effective rolling radius argument; with the car sat on its tyres I suspect the effective rolling radius to be near identical. As I've said before you can't establish any kind of suitability from working with an unloaded tyre. I don't disagree with your conclusion, I'd use the stock size also. But your method used to determine circumference is flawed.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1479950
20/03/2014 18:12
20/03/2014 18:12
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Big_Muzzie
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Big_Muzzie
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Sorry sheep didn't see it was an na, drop 5 off the side wall to get as close as possible to the na 15' size.
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Re: tyres
[Re: andyps]
#1479952
20/03/2014 18:50
20/03/2014 18:50
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sheep
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sheep
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If you want a couple of very good 205/45-16 Yokohama AD08Rs I have a pair for sale I'll leave it to others to decide if the size is right. So looks like 205.45 or 215.45.16's. Andy could you pm me a price for your tyres delivered.
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Re: tyres
[Re: szkom]
#1479974
20/03/2014 20:58
20/03/2014 20:58
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Joined: Dec 2005
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PeteP
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I don't disagree with your conclusion, I'd use the stock size also. But your method used to determine circumference is flawed. It's not flawed, it is purely geometry on an unloaded tyre which is the only possible constant which can be used. As soon as you fit it to a car, then variables such as weight, sidewall stiffness and tyre pressure come into play, so then the actual rolling circumference will be affected. But at different rates.
16VT and X1/9 1500
We must all do our part for the planet. I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
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Re: tyres
[Re: szkom]
#1480009
20/03/2014 23:09
20/03/2014 23:09
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PeteP
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What use is knowing the unloaded circumference when considering gearing? Fundamental, because it is the basis from which you can work out loaded circumference. Everything in physics and engineering has to start from a known position, you then bring in additional data when making calculations for varying conditions.
16VT and X1/9 1500
We must all do our part for the planet. I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
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Re: tyres
[Re: PeteP]
#1480012
20/03/2014 23:34
20/03/2014 23:34
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sheep
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sheep
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[As you've calculated an unloaded difference of 6% I'd be inclined to think Fiat would've kept the effective rolling radius the same between na and turbo. If, as I believe is the case, the correct 20v tyre size is the same as that of the 16v, then I would be fitting 205/50/16 on the new wheels.. So i have the wrong size tyres on my 15's at present they should be 195/55, so i should go for 205,50,16 then.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1480028
21/03/2014 08:10
21/03/2014 08:10
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Big_Muzzie
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Big_Muzzie
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Sheep, pop onto kwikfit site and it will tell you the standard size, then knock5 off for the inch increase.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1480048
21/03/2014 10:53
21/03/2014 10:53
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,417 Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG
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So let me get this right: we can't calculate the effective rolling radius, and the unloaded tyre circumference is "an unnecessary datum"...what size do you suggest the OP uses? And what do other people use when wanting to change sizes? The workshop manual states 205/50-15 for the 15" n/a wheels and 205/50-16 for the 16" 20vt wheels, so I think your statement I'd be inclined to think Fiat would've kept the effective rolling radius the same between na and turbo isn't right. And whilst (when changing sizes) we'd all like to keep the "radius" the same* there isn't an infinite choice of sizes, and with some more common sizes being significantly cheaper, this will often sway the buyer's decision to accept a few % difference either way. * Me? IIRC I've got 225/50x17 which eliminates completely the speedo error and fills the arches nicely (but does rub a bit on the wheel arch liners )
1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus 1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1480058
21/03/2014 12:25
21/03/2014 12:25
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,290 Staffs
Dazvr6
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I thought 225/40/18 was stretching it a bit! Mine will be an inch bigger than the standard size but yours will be nearly 2 inches. Does that not compromise the handling?
Last edited by Dazvr6; 21/03/2014 12:26.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1480064
21/03/2014 13:03
21/03/2014 13:03
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sheep
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sheep
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Sheep, pop onto kwikfit site and it will tell you the standard size, then knock5 off for the inch increase.
According to kwikfit i should be running 205/50/15's as standard.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1480080
21/03/2014 14:23
21/03/2014 14:23
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,301 Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps
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Sheep, pop onto kwikfit site and it will tell you the standard size, then knock5 off for the inch increase.
According to kwikfit i should be running 205/50/15's as standard. I am not sure I would ever trust KwikFit to be correct.
Andy
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1480103
21/03/2014 15:22
21/03/2014 15:22
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,417 Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG
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DaveG, do you understand what I mean by effective rolling radius? As I think you've misunderstood my point. No, I think I understand you perfectly. I base my opinion on the fact we have a size that is known to work on the Coupé and it's speedometer. AFAIK, the 20v na and 20vt have speedo's that are "calibrated" differently. My point is that quoting an unloaded circumference is misleading. What I suggest is that people make an educated guess, much as I did with my 215/35/18, and presumably you have with yours. Yes, but both ours and your "educated guess" is based on the "misleading" unloaded circumference/radius. My point is that it's not exactly correct, but it's certainly not misleading. I'd be interested to hear why you don't agree that the effective radius between the turbo and na tyres can't be the same. Petep worked out the unloaded circumference difference between the two above and got 2% difference. petep was referring to the 16v na (195/55-15) and 16vt (205/50-16) where the larger tyre is larger by closer to 3% (2.7%). The OP has a 20v na and is presumably fitting 20vt wheels, where the difference in unloaded circumference is 4%. On the 20v na/ 20vt, that 4% difference translates to a difference in OD (or “height” if you will) of 611 – 586 = 25mm (1”), so that the same car would sit 12.5mm (½”) higher on the 20vt wheels/tyres. Now I concede that the 20vt engine is heavier than the 20v na, if only because of the turbo and extra radiator fan, but at the same time the recommended tyre pressure increases from 2.5 to 2.7 bar. So I can’t really see how the effective rolling radius on the same 50 profile tyres could be the same. Similar maybe, in the same way that unloaded circumferences are similar, but not the same. But without all this special tyre data we’ll never know, so we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Just as a footnote, according to the workshop manual, the 16v na could come with 205/55-15 as an option which is larger than the 195/55-15 by 1.8%. Likewise, the 16vt could come with 205/50-15 instead, which is 4% smaller different. And maybe these will all have the same effective rolling radius, maybe not. At the end of the day, we can’t care too much about something we can’t estimate, but we can care about something that we can, however misleading you think it is. Oh and finally I thought 225/40/18 was stretching it a bit! Mine will be an inch bigger than the standard size but yours will be nearly 2 inches. Does that not compromise the handling? Compared to 205/50-16, your 225/40-18 is around an inch “bigger” (OD) or ½” bigger (radius) and my 225/50-17 are indeed almost an inch bigger in radius. I chose that size deliberately to reduce the speedo error on my car with 205/50-16 (an indicated 74.9mph at a true 70.0mph from GPS, YMMV) to precisely zero, whilst at the same time filling out the arches as I mentioned, perhaps raising the car a little to overcome the “a bit too low?” drop on Eibachs, and also introducing a degree of “comfort” by maintaining the 50 profile instead of going to 45 or even 40. Similar reasons that other people have used in going to 205/55-16, which can be significantly cheaper than 205/50-16. And with a width of 225, the same as I have used in the past (on 16” wheels) I thought I would be OK on clearance, and in general I am, but there is some rubbing on the front “air grid” part, and on the small cover over the aux belt tensioner or whatever it is. I’m no handling expert (nor, clearly, an expert in effective rolling radius) but it seems to handle pretty good to me.
1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus 1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
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Re: tyres
[Re: DaveG]
#1480125
21/03/2014 16:45
21/03/2014 16:45
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,290 Staffs
Dazvr6
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I chose that size deliberately to reduce the speedo error on my car with 205/50-16 (an indicated 74.9mph at a true 70.0mph from GPS, YMMV) to precisely zero, whilst at the same time filling out the arches as I mentioned, perhaps raising the car a little to overcome the “a bit too low?” drop on Eibachs, and also introducing a degree of “comfort” by maintaining the 50 profile instead of going to 45 or even 40.
I hadn't considered the speedo error! Like you I wanted to fill the arches a little more than they are at present and give a little more clearance over the many speed humps around here. That's why I opted for the 40 profile instead of the 35.
Last edited by Dazvr6; 21/03/2014 16:46.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1480158
21/03/2014 20:05
21/03/2014 20:05
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Big_Muzzie
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Big_Muzzie
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Hmm seems to be 2 topics running here....
The kwikfit site is accurate for std fit wheels, as the coupe didn't have a million choices of wheel then it's right.
In simple terms for every one inch increase in rim drop 5 on the tyre wall, same for every 20 in width.
Sheep 45 16 on a 205 are as close as you'll get, 195 will fit on the vt rim also and be closer. Check your speedo to sat navigation on the flat if being a bit out worries you, you can always compensate once you know.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1480163
21/03/2014 20:18
21/03/2014 20:18
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sheep
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sheep
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Thanks for the replys guys, im going for some 205/45/16"s. Everyone has assumed i picked up some cheap 20vt rims, infact i picked up some TSW evo 6 spoke alloys for a bargin price of £26 on ebay. These are a temp replacement as i picked them up so cheap. Thinking of getting some spacers for them do i need hubcentric? The et on these wheels are 35 so only looking at 5mm or maybe 10mm at the very most.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1481442
30/03/2014 12:34
30/03/2014 12:34
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sheep
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sheep
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Decided not to go for the 16's as they still look to small, so now on the look out for 17's and 18's qustion is what size tyre on the 17's. 18's i will run 225/40/18.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1481581
31/03/2014 11:38
31/03/2014 11:38
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,290 Staffs
Dazvr6
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I'd go for 215 40 17 or 215 45 17 as they are easy to find sizes. Mine have 205 40 17 on at the mo and they look very small in the arches. It also depends on whether you want comfort or sharp handling. Fancy a set of dark grey Rota Circuit 10's?
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1481588
31/03/2014 12:20
31/03/2014 12:20
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sheep
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sheep
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Can you post up a picture of the wheels, discriptipn of tyre and wheel condition and then pm me a price. Cheers
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1481597
31/03/2014 13:15
31/03/2014 13:15
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,290 Staffs
Dazvr6
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Tyres are all budget and 3 are at least half worn with the 1 other being quite new (6mm left) Wheels are coming off this weekend and I will be refurbing the lips as they have some minor kerbing. The rest of the wheels are virtually unmarked. Not sure on the width and ET until I get them off the car but I am running spacers with them. Here's a pic of them on the car:
Last edited by Dazvr6; 31/03/2014 13:17.
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Re: tyres
[Re: ]
#1481673
31/03/2014 21:48
31/03/2014 21:48
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sheep
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sheep
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