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Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502273
09/08/2014 18:37
09/08/2014 18:37
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Bad day: Stuart Broad
Good day: Moeen Ali and everyone else in the England side!

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502346
10/08/2014 09:17
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Well, thanks to India for making us look so good!
Nobody can pretend that all is right in the England camp and India's batting was almost look-away embarrassing, but with Broad in A&E and Anderson battling a sickness bug, for England to bowl out the tourists for 161 will give them great encouragement.
I'm so pleased for Moeen; as Agnew said, a combination of a lack of confidence from Cook and scorn from the Indian batsmen almost finished his bowling and maybe test career before it got going. Even if some of his wickets in the last 2 games have been down to complacency or incompetence by the batsmen (I refuse to use the hideous "batter" that seems to have invaded the game, though I suppose batswoman is a bit clumsy for the women's game) Moeen has either caused or enforced both collapses and worked damn hard to adjust his game to the test arena. Everyone knows he is no Swann, but he might make a pretty decent replacement.
As all the pundits have said, our first change seam attack is the big problem; there is a strong chance that Broad will miss the Oval (actually not such a bad thing in some ways) and Anderson is obviously not at 100%, so we need someone else to lead the line. I tend to agree that neither Jordan nor Woakes has made a compelling case and Plunkett needs to be used more effectively. He has the pace, but if he can't bowl line and length, he's like left-right-sh*te era Mitchell Johnson.
I would definitely, absolutely bring Finn in for the Oval. He's potentially a superb strike bowler, but never if we don't give him a chance.
In the batting department, I'm a bit worried about Robson - all the Indian bowlers seem to have worked him out, which means every test bowler will be queuing up to have a go. He really needs a good knock to raise his confidence, or he'll be out. After the Indians leave, England have no more tests for 8 months I believe, so no more opportunities to try others, as Boycott said yesterday.
On the positive side, Ballance looks like he'll make it in the long form, even if he's oddly anonymous. If Butler can improve his keeping (which always seems to be the case with keeper-batsmen) then England will heave a sigh of relief at filling Matt Prior's shoes. Good partnership between him and Root yesterday.
The senior players finally seem to be finding a bit of form, too, so maybe England really have begun to turn the corner and see the light at the end of the tunnel, etc, etc.
Looking forward to the Oval!

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502516
11/08/2014 09:25
11/08/2014 09:25
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
Well, thanks to India for making us look so good!
Nobody can pretend that all is right in the England camp and India's batting was almost look-away embarrassing, but with Broad in A&E and Anderson battling a sickness bug, for England to bowl out the tourists for 161 will give them great encouragement.
I'm so pleased for Moeen; as Agnew said, a combination of a lack of confidence from Cook and scorn from the Indian batsmen almost finished his bowling and maybe test career before it got going. Even if some of his wickets in the last 2 games have been down to complacency or incompetence by the batsmen (I refuse to use the hideous "batter" that seems to have invaded the game, though I suppose batswoman is a bit clumsy for the women's game) Moeen has either caused or enforced both collapses and worked damn hard to adjust his game to the test arena. Everyone knows he is no Swann, but he might make a pretty decent replacement.
As all the pundits have said, our first change seam attack is the big problem; there is a strong chance that Broad will miss the Oval (actually not such a bad thing in some ways) and Anderson is obviously not at 100%, so we need someone else to lead the line. I tend to agree that neither Jordan nor Woakes has made a compelling case and Plunkett needs to be used more effectively. He has the pace, but if he can't bowl line and length, he's like left-right-sh*te era Mitchell Johnson.
I would definitely, absolutely bring Finn in for the Oval. He's potentially a superb strike bowler, but never if we don't give him a chance.
In the batting department, I'm a bit worried about Robson - all the Indian bowlers seem to have worked him out, which means every test bowler will be queuing up to have a go. He really needs a good knock to raise his confidence, or he'll be out. After the Indians leave, England have no more tests for 8 months I believe, so no more opportunities to try others, as Boycott said yesterday.
On the positive side, Ballance looks like he'll make it in the long form, even if he's oddly anonymous. If Butler can improve his keeping (which always seems to be the case with keeper-batsmen) then England will heave a sigh of relief at filling Matt Prior's shoes. Good partnership between him and Root yesterday.
The senior players finally seem to be finding a bit of form, too, so maybe England really have begun to turn the corner and see the light at the end of the tunnel, etc, etc.
Looking forward to the Oval!



Great summary Jim.



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Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502522
11/08/2014 10:37
11/08/2014 10:37
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It was an interesting and entertaining game. Good points Jim. Moeen did a great job, comparing him to Swann is always harsh as Swann was the best English spinner since Underwood. Moeen is not far off Giles and has got a lot more potential with the bat too. It's a shame Monty has gone of the rails, although Shane Warne always criticised him for just having the single delivery type.

I think Stokes should replace Woakes and if Broad or Anderson are out/rested then get Finn in or replace Jordan with him. Having said that Jordan does seem to have a positive effect on the team and is superb in the field.

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502523
11/08/2014 10:50
11/08/2014 10:50
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Getting criticised by Shane Warne sadly means nothing these days. I thought his commentary contributions on last summer's Ashes were refreshing and surprisingly unbiased, but since then he's disappeared up his own (and KP's) ar5e. Difficult, but he seems to have managed it. The personal level of his attacks devalues any cricketing points he makes.

I feel very sorry for Monty; if he had been shown a bit more love by England at a time when he was clearly vulnerable, I think he would have avoided a lot of the problems he's gone through. As a side noted for sticking with players, Monty conversely seemed to be dropped like a hot brick once Swann revealed himself as a spinning god. He did develop other deliveries, but didn't get much of a chance to try them out. I'm not saying he was perfect by any means, but it felt to me like he was discarded a bit casually.

I agree that Woakes ought to move over - for the moment. Neither his batting nor bowling were effective enough and, although Stokes hasn't performed that well for England either, I think he shades it of the two. However, I still think I'd prefer Finn to either of them. If he can be coaxed back to his potential, his batting should be pretty irrelevant.

I agree that Jordan has more of a positive influence overall, so I guess he stays.

Who would you go for if Robson doesn't make the grade? I'd be loathe to mess around with the order, especially as the other players seem to be finding form, but do England have another opener with the talent/class?

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502525
11/08/2014 11:42
11/08/2014 11:42
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Opening partnership is a tough one. We have won the last two tests because the top order started batting at last. However if Cook fails again at the Oval and Robson does too then it can soon all fall apart.

The Aussie tour debarcle came about by a lack of batting resilience along with a divided team. Cook was failing as was Carberry, and Trott was in trouble and other than Stokes everyone else followed suit. This blow to Cooks form then seemed to prevent him being authoritative in the captain role. It is telling that he is a different person on the back of a win or two.

I would try Compton again for an opener?

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: bockers] #1502527
11/08/2014 11:51
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Just as long as they don't try Root as opener again....

Adam Lyth at Yorkshire is having a stormer of a season. Probably too late to be considered now, but definitely one for the future should Robson not make it.

I don't particularly rate Compton, but he's gone back to County cricket and has scored runs.



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Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502530
11/08/2014 11:57
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Agree, Root needs to stay where he is as he works well at 5.

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: bockers] #1502535
11/08/2014 12:22
11/08/2014 12:22
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Originally Posted By: bockers
Opening partnership is a tough one. We have won the last two tests because the top order started batting at last. However if Cook fails again at the Oval and Robson does too then it can soon all fall apart.

The Aussie tour debarcle came about by a lack of batting resilience along with a divided team. Cook was failing as was Carberry, and Trott was in trouble and other than Stokes everyone else followed suit. This blow to Cooks form then seemed to prevent him being authoritative in the captain role. It is telling that he is a different person on the back of a win or two.

I would try Compton again for an opener?


I think that's a good shout. To me he's today's Bill Lawry, obdurate and gritty. He's also right-handed which always makes the opening partnership a little more niggly for a bowling attack to deal with.

Woakes is becoming like a Ravi Bopara figure, in this week and out the next. He hasn't done quite enough to help himself so he may fall again.

Buttler is still raw in the catchy catchy department but then again so was Prior prone to a few howlers in the early part of his career. He'll develop more skill to be sure as he's a talented all-round sportsman. I'd also like to see both Moeen's and Root's spin bowling seriously encouraged, not the former can do much wrong at the moment even if the Indian batsmen are almost trying to get out at a specified point when he's bowling.

My team:

Cook
Compton
Ballance
Bell
Root
Moeen
Buttler
Jordan
Broad/Stokes
Anderson
Finn.

I have to be convinced that a masked Broad will be at full tilt even if the spectacle of Zorro isn't enough to have everyone fall about. In that case Stokes in for him. Finn on the Oval wicket like Devon Malcolm before him has a chance to prove himself again and wreak havoc. Give the man a break and let him take wickets even if he does knock a bail off once or twice!


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Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502536
11/08/2014 12:24
11/08/2014 12:24
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That's what I mean about mucking around with the order; a bit of (probably fragile) confidence is returning with everyone seemingly in the right slots - don't want to mess with it. At least Compton has a bit of experience, but frankly I'm not sure it was a positive thing!

If Robson bats well in an upbeat team at The Oval, we may be able to shelve the question...

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502544
11/08/2014 13:08
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Taking a look at the (almost) unchanged top six order now it's beginning to show signs of settling it's not a bad one at all!


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Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Edinburgh] #1502557
11/08/2014 13:54
11/08/2014 13:54
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Originally Posted By: Edinburgh
Taking a look at the (almost) unchanged top six order now it's beginning to show signs of settling it's not a bad one at all!


Agreed, bar Robson. He might yet make it, but he's not there yet in my view!

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502583
11/08/2014 15:24
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He's a bit too predictable. The "verdict" program on Sky was saying how all the worlds bowlers will have Robson sussed . I am looking forward to the Oval now.

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502606
11/08/2014 18:03
11/08/2014 18:03
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
Originally Posted By: Edinburgh
Taking a look at the (almost) unchanged top six order now it's beginning to show signs of settling it's not a bad one at all!


Agreed, bar Robson. He might yet make it, but he's not there yet in my view!


To clarify, my six would have included Compton in place of Robson.
Thank goodness Root is phlegmatic enough to have dealt with so much changes of position within the top order. It's looking like Ballance is a find beyond one's dreams to replace Trott (in his heyday) and in a way Bell can act, and appears to be doing so, as the senior batsman with space to himself on the stage now that KP (now what will he do, a vanishing trick? TV?) is filtered out.


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Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502621
11/08/2014 19:13
11/08/2014 19:13
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If Ballance is a find (and I agree he is), Root has the potential to do almost anything. As you say, his temperament and unflappability in facing almost every situation - even not making many as an opener - is incredible for a lad of his years. His brother plays a bit too; maybe a future opening partnership!

Not all rosy in England's garden, but a hell of a turnaround since Lords.

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502642
11/08/2014 21:08
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
...Root has the potential to do almost anything... His brother plays a bit too; maybe a future opening partnership!


Root squared?


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Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502651
11/08/2014 21:34
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We could do with a player called Dave Branch...

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1502686
12/08/2014 01:24
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One of my all-time favourites:

During the weekend’s Yorkshire Bank 40-over match between Scotland and Durham, the following happened: “Coleman caught Mustard bowled Onions 0".

laugh


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Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1503176
15/08/2014 13:09
15/08/2014 13:09
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Reasonable start by England. Good to see Broad is fit enough. Assuming he lasts the full match...

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1503181
15/08/2014 13:48
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There's always a case for sticking with a winning team and this morning's play so far has shown no reason for changing that.

4 down!!

That's reasonable enough for me smile

Indian batting looking decidedly iffy it has to be said.


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Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1503191
15/08/2014 14:15
15/08/2014 14:15
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Makes the Trent Bridge and Lords performances all the more puzzling...

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1503203
15/08/2014 15:11
15/08/2014 15:11
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Don't start getting all conspiratorial now Jim.

I'm listening aghast Aggers' interview with Paul Downton on the subject of the punishing schedule coming up in the next 12 months or so - my sympathies lie with their families.


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Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1503219
15/08/2014 16:19
15/08/2014 16:19
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It's Independance Day in India today (yes that's independance from the UK smile ). Not much celebration going on tonight i suspect.

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1503319
16/08/2014 20:51
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Robson; meh. Bell, could do better, Moeen, needs to get his batting confidence up with his bowling
Otherwise another commanding day. Should win, but this is England...!

Re: England Test Cricket [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1503397
17/08/2014 20:07
17/08/2014 20:07
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Well, you can only beat what's put in front of you...
Slightly concerned that England will now feel as though they are back as world beaters, but I certainly don't begrudge them a bit of satisfaction!
Clinically done and once again, Joe Root can do no wrong.

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