Indeed Simon. There seems to be grumblings already from south of the border that Scotland is being offered a large slice of the cake. Mr Cameron & co do have their work cut out for themselves, stating the obvious by the way.

And curious too that Gordon Brown, even today in Dalgety Bay, is shouting and promising louder than his, er, leader.

My main concern about Catalan independence (and we have quite a lot of Catalan friends in favour too) is that it appears to be a much more aggressive and - crucially to me - exclusive brand of nationalism than Scotland's.
It's not as big a leap from "Self determination" to "Our country for our people only" as I hoped.

I have a belief that any grouping of more than about thirty people is doomed to fracture...

Scotland? It just seems a bit puzzling to me that in a democratic UK, only Scottish residents can vote on whether to divide the UK up. What about all the rest of us. Very odd.

Aye very odd

Pandering to those who complain the loudest enforcer.

It's over, votes counted - now for more whining when things don't go the way of a minority, after all those promises were made.

It's a proper load of crap.

North England-shire ain't too happy about westminsters handling of the country either, lets hope that things may change for the good of all the UK after this episode.

Quite, I don't exactly live in a bastion of torydom here.

And I find it puzzling that in a democratic UK I don't get to vote on who YOUR MP is just because I live hundreds of miles away

Still leaves 45% of votable Scots not wanting to be British

Actually this has really nothing to do about not wanting to be British, for some it's about wanting a fair deal across the board, & across the UK some aint getting that in their eyes.

Is that a suggestion that south of the border should follow Scotland's suit and elect parliament by proportional representation Azzura?

A reminder that this is how members are elected to the Scottish Parliament so the MSP ratio is in proportion to which party a voter selects on the ballot paper. A tiny bit more complicated but doable and in my mind fairer.

Seems that Scotland shows the way on important issues such as smoking in public, sending the poll tax to the trash can, getting younger people politically involved as well as introducing PR.

Well found sir. So his response was to suggest the Scotland's ideal of self determination was flawed because they wanted to remain in the EU But surely choosing who you wish to ally with is self determination, no?

Nigel Farage did say via his website - "Alex Salmond has fuelled such vitriol and hatred amongst Yes campaigners that we are now seeing intimidation, a growing anti-English sentiment and the sort of abhorrent behaviour that could lead to rioting."​

Clearly he would never stoop so low to further his cause, oh hang on isn't that what he's well known for when speaking in the EU debate chamber?



Please forgive me for not seeking out Mr Farage outside of the usual main stream media. I mean, Radio 4 Niel, I'm far too young for that

Across the country there is a huge difference in what we consider a fair way of living. Generally the further North you go the further to the left the ideology lies.

One guy shouted out this has nothing to do with religion, wtf. This is Scotlands shame, I'm embarrassed to admit it's more prominent in the west of Scotland. I'm afraid it infects way beyond it's own lands and borders and sea's.

Apparently they burnt a saltire flag in George Square which at the time was having a pro scotland independant party, sums it up !



x

I was in Belfast 35 years ago. It was the 10th anniversary of the troubles, Warrenpoint and Mountbatten happened while I was over there.

The base I was stationed in was the focus of a local riot. A KOSB snatch squad brought in 2 of the rioters. One was a Catholic from Glasgow over for "the fun". That is Scotlands shame IMO. And I sincerely hope he got the visit the KOSB brick commander promised him when he was next home.

Hmm. Got oil, got industry, got nuclear weapons, got visiting Russians, got Putin's eye on the place?

Well kind of........but not convinced; that is putting it the negative way round. The craic is as I understood it was more about wanting to make own decisions which were more locally relevant, fuelled by a distrust of Westminster's history toward this part of the world.

That's exactly my feelings Simon as I pointed out a few posts back, in not so many words.

Perhaps I'm reading some the wrong way, but I get negativity about the whole idea of Scotland wanting a better deal for their country. As I've said earlier & it's very obvious by westminsters reaction to this whole episode, things might change for the better for the UK across the board.

Scotland is part of a wider UK community. Many people across that larger community would also like to negotiate a "Better Deal." Perhaps some of the negativity the Scots see could be due to many of these other people feeling a bit let down by their Scottish friends.

The Scots by trying to get a better deal, for themselves, do seem to be giving a two finger salute to everyone who feels the same as them. This could perhaps explain one source of the negativity?

We also have those who secretly wanted you to go so that they could further their political ambitions...

So yes, plenty of source for negativity.

Mmmm, a two fingered salute may be an over reaction to say the least, although you are entitled to your opinion.

I have no idea about your situation or the area you live, as I've said before postcode lottery does play a big part of your life. I'm very happy where I live & in my area there are no real issues about immigrants or religion & there is no over populated areas, suits my laidback style of living.

As I said I have no idea of your situation or age group, but it appears you are not a happy bunny at all. Just making observations by the way no judgements.

Just to add...the Scots that wanted change, some, if they were putting two fingers up to anyone would be to westminster ministers. Most coming from the less well off areas who felt nobody down there were listening to them.

I was just trying to explain why there may have been some negativity, and from which parties. Also I don't think it matters which part of the country anyone comes from as to which way their political ideology lies.

Well in the case for Scottish independence the two main yes votes came from areas deemed less affluent. Personally I think the last thing on their minds would be sticking up two fingers to England, I would imagine they would be thinking at the very worst they would have nothing to loose, looking for in their minds a better deal.

Ironically these main two areas had 70 odd % turn outs, while the rest of Scotland who voted no had 80/90 % turn outs. I think some take things a bit too personally & look for hidden agendas while the truth is very different & simple.

Indeed, I don't think the majority of "yes" voters really have anything against England or being part of the UK, they simply wanted a big shift to the left politically and saw independence as the most likely way to deliver that.

It's no coincidence that the rise of the SNP has followed the shift of the Labour party towards the centre (under Tony Blair) as they sought to become more electable in England.

The Labour party are not left wing enough for a lot of Scottish voters and any party to the left of Labour have zero chance of a Westminster majority, hence the SNP and independence is seen as the solution by many.

Guys, you seem to be taking my "Two Finger" comment a little out of context. I was merely suggesting that those Scots that want a shift to left based politics seem to have chosen independence over influence. This clearly leaves some left leaning people in the UK feeling let down. And some of those from the right will obviously not speak generously either



This may be why there is some negativity, seemingly, coming from South of the border?

If I was living in Scotland idve voted yes just to drop shite British reality TV, Bollocks to politics and oil!

On a serious note, some heavy debate going on. Let's face it if we all had the chance to vote for the promised land and we're ill informed of the reprocussions we'd vote for it. It's the materialists way....

Well at least I got to see what the inside of a polling station looks like, for the first and last time.

I could not believe it when the radio was giving instructions on how to vote and even worse hearing that hundreds if not thousands of ballots were spoiled because folk turned up, took the ballot, folded it in half and and put it in the ballot box WITHOUT HAVING ENTERED ANY VOTE! There were a HUGE amount of Scots complaining about "not being represented" when large quantities of them had never bothered to vote before. They only have themselves to blame.

Perhaps I should even be more simplistic. Any animosity up here is firmly directed towards westminster. Some communities have long memories & are still reeling from the likes of Thatcher. I don't have to go into to much detail about "that" women. She tore communities apart also in the north of England. Some even thought she was a murderer causing the deaths of some who practically fought for their cause.

Even today some still harbour strong hatred towards her. Look what happened when she died. Dancing in the streets in some places. Big parties, well we all know what happened.

Perhaps you may think I'm a bit over the top, but she practically strengthened the SNP cause very quickly & the rest is history as they say.

And here we are today,bedroom tax, hitting the poor with cuts etc etc, some just saw a way out for themselves with the referendum. To be fair there are the odd nutter out there spouting anti English rubbish, but they're usually fueled by drink.

Talking of drink, I'd hate to see Scotland after a yes vote. What a drink fueled party that would turn out to be.

Just find it strange that you dig up something from "35" years ago which happened in Belfast in reply to my post which was about an incident that happened in the last 24hrs at a party in Glasgow, then recall where the guy was from and more worryingly his religion.

I do not know alot about the "troubles" or Belfast or Ireland for that matter, maybe you should try and move on.





Hopefully you have been watching too much Steven Seagal

Scotlands biggest selling sunday paper today. This is linked to the original topic so I haven't went totally o/t and I'm pretty sure I have not made a personal attack in any way, please correct me if I'm wrong