And they often don't need windows. Making do with shards of ice.

I'm going to start ranting about Bear Grylls soon.

Anyway, just wanted to add my condemnation of today's shootings. Wish there was an easy answer to preventing these incidents, but unfortunately they seem to be inevitable these days. I did fantasise about being in an Apache gunship when I saw the gunmen drive off in the video. I had 2 hellfires locked on and 200 rounds of 20mm were about to be unleashed.

Completely agree. Isn't this how they dealt with Anders Brevic?

Je suis Charlie.

Funny that, I was imagining myself on that rooftop with a high velocity sniper rifle

Agreed indeed - Watching the French media and BBC streams it seems they may be going for a Butch and Sundance ending.... Stay safe jarofjam and our French friends.....

Ooops. I've corrected the round diameter to 30mm. Must get these things right you know. [geek alert]

Anyway, despite fantasy it's important to try not stoop to their level.

It is quite understandable that many people express an emotional response to such a horror that occurred yesterday. The perpetrators of these acts were acting without care for anyone else, they had a goal to achieve and nobody was going to stop them.

We often refer to ourselves as being civilised but it is a concept with which we struggle. A great philosopher once wrote "Man, when perfected, is the best of animals, but when separated from law and justice, he is the worst of all." This was the same fellow who gave us " The Law is reason free from passion."

So yes much reaction to these horrific events is extremely passionate, as should be expected. But our response should hold true to our civilised values of justice and Law, not passion.

No argument there, but it might be worth considering what that would require. If they engage in cold-blooded murder in response to a cartoon, how would society have to react to what they did, to get down to their level?

Have a nun remove their finger nails and place sticks of dynamite up their jacksies while mother superior, dressed as you know who, lights said sticks whilst laughing demonically?

Islam in United Kingdom is the second largest religion with results from the United Kingdom Census 2011 giving the UK Muslim population in 2011 as 2,786,635, 4.4% of the total population. The vast majority of Muslims in the United Kingdom live in England: 2,660,116 (5.02% of the population). 76,737 Muslims live in Scotland (1.45%), 45,950 in Wales (1.50%), and 3,832 in Northern Ireland (0.21%).[1][2][3]

Between 2001 and 2009 the Muslim population increased almost 10 times faster than the non-Muslim population.

I think I read that in france the figure was 10% of the population was of muslim faith.
I also believe that in the first paragraph, the word "England " should be replaced by the word " Birmingham "

Fixed that for you.

you've obviously not been to Birmingham lately !!!

Quite interesting if you do a google search to see how many " religious " wars that are ongoing or have finished in the last 5 years.2000 feared dead in Nigeria this week alone by fanatics, trying to turn Nigeria into a muslim state !
Funny how Islamic leaders always come out after the event, saying how they are disgusted by the actions of their own, when the fanatics are being recruited in the very places they kneel down and pray each day. The lengths they go to , to make sure that there are no reprisal attacks ! ...and we are still falling for it.

I was there in October - but it was only for a gig!

I agree, to be honest living near a city and travelling too it to work where there is a high concentration of Muslims I am starting to fear for my safety every now and again. I'm not the only person who feels like this as I've discussed it with a few work colleagues. All the news articles make it worse - especially when it's an attack like in Paris.

Reprisal attacks could soon lead to serious civil unrest (not rioting by idiotic little pricks, proper nasty stuff) - I'd like to think that kind mass idiocy is a 3rd world issue and there is enough intelligence in the UK / Western Europe for it not to go that far. But I'm not convinced.

I was in a pub and heard a conversation around the issue after the child abuse scandals - the feeling through the group of men was "If you wish to stay in the UK then you are to obey how we do things - if you don't like it f' off, there will be no second chance"

It's a tough one, ones that getting harder to sympathise with their beliefs day by day.

Falling for what exactly?

Are we seriously trying to suggest that everyone of the Muslim faith speaks with one voice / intent. And all non muslims should have good cause to undertake some kind of, devine retribution against muslims for the actions of certain extreemists?

We all congregate here on a forum due to our like of a particular car. Being here for that reason does not for one minute mean that I agree or support half of the rubbish that is spoken within these pages!

I'm working in Alum Rock area next week, where whites aren't welcome after dark...should be interesting [ wish I had a turbo version now lol ]. 25 addresses to call at and go into over there , sometimes I have to pinch myself about how lucky I am to have this job ! [ and u worry for your safety just passing through ]

What's wrong with you people?

I live in a Muslim country, some of my best friends are Muslims, hell, my wife is from Iraq! Do I feel threatened, have I changed the way I behave.....NO, they accept me for the person I am and for my beliefs, no one has tried to convert me or preach to me.
They are all just as worried about this uprising as everyone else is.

Stop being so narrow minded in thinking Muslim means militant extremist.

Was there a point to this? Or is your new hobby just pasting random census information from Wikipedia?

CATEGORY ERROR WARNING:

"Some people claiming to be Muslim do X" does not equal "All Muslims do X"

Thank you. We now return you to your normal programming.

Thanks, Jim, some sanity.

I've been looking through all of the artwork in response to this, Sarah McIntyre's seems to convey the best message imo.

Jimbo, my experience of Arabs is exactly the same. Kind, curtious, welcoming and generally generous - hence my comments and issues.
Sadly the extreme side of the religion shouts the loudest and generates the interest.
I know many Muslims that deal with Islam as many believe is correct. They don't drink, smoke or gamble. They give 20% (I THINK) of income to charity every month. They follow the pillars of Islam in there proper context. But nobody reports on them, no one shouts about charity, community and the strength of the bonds their religion and culture creates.

Glen1960 - I think you're mixing up being white or not with being Muslim or not.

Instead the few bad apples spoil the bunch and drives fear.

This is rather a good little article

Mark Steel in the Independent

I'm a fan of Mark Steel. He has a gift of putting any situation into perspective, couched in wit which stretches the bounds of imagination, and defusing potential overheated response.

Meanwhile, in other news from other erstwhile friends of the UK: http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/pres...0-lashes-2015-0

Anyone care to argue with my thesis that religion - any religion, I'm not fussy - is nothing more and nothing less than a very successful mechanism for controlling populations?

A good little article? I'm not surprised you like the left-wing drivel he's spouting.

Anders Breivik was one person, who himself admitted he's not that religious so the article falls flat on it's ass. We've had hundreds if not thousands of Muslims going to Syria to fight for ISIS, and Muslims were responsible for 9/11, 7/7, Lee Rigby, numerous beheadings, Nigeria as mentioned above, and now Paris. There are no doubt other atrocities I've missed, all which were done in the name of Islam.

Funny how the numpty jounalist omits these facts.

Looks like they're now holed up in a building surrounded by the whole of the French Armed Forces.

Martyrdom approaching.......

I sincerely hope not - String 'um up and put 'um on show. What are the rules on Martyrdom anyway?
Some agencies really are dumb adding photos on twitter of the special forces on the roof for 'all' to see.......
How the heck did they get away from the village Longpont this morning?

I know how you feel . I have two younger brothers one lives near me in romford and the other one UAE . The one that lives in Dubai is a partner in a advertising agency and have lived there since the early 1990s . He says the same as you and cant understand why people in england and elsewhere have a different (negative ) attitude to muslims in general .My answer to him is go and live in birmingham/bradford or Tower Hamlets and see if he feels the same way . Cetain parts of the east end and east ham are no go areas at night for white people .

Selection bias or what?

Should we mention the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, the Rape of Nanking, The Holocaust, Srebenica, The Ukranian Famine, Siberia, the Irish and Highland Clearances, the Norman Invasion, Siberia, Crimea (either), the Gulf War, The Western Front, The Siege of Stalingrad, the Warsaw Ghetto, Kinshassa, the Long March, the Cherokee Trail of Tears or all the other cases where people professing any religion or none rampaged through the lands killing - nominally to support a legitimate government or other cause?

Once again - category error. Someone who does X professes Y does *not* mean that everyone who professes Y does X.

In the UAE they have money and power as they should in their own country. The wealth is fairly spread throughout the Arab inhabitants, they are happy to employ brains from outside the UAE - Especially as most going over are intelligent, are going to high paid jobs and accept their culture.

I believe it is the opposite for many that came over to the UK in the early 20th centaury. This feeling of hate towards the UK, the fact that many are educated to a low level, can't get a job or on in this country and still have a tribal mentality makes them prime picks for the idiots who then brain wash them with tails of heroism and recreating their identity!