I SHOUT AND CARRY A SMALL STICK... oh, wait, that's not right...

Agreed. When I hear laughable statements like "The attacks have absolutely nothing to do with Islam" on the BBC and elsewhere I wonder if these people are genuinely completely ignorant of the facts, if they feel unable to speak freely in public, if they're simply toeing the PC party line to further their careers or if they're really just trolling.



Indeed. A reasoned public debate on some topics is now more or less impossible. I gave up trying to achieve the impossible some time ago hence I try not to get involed.

The american on the news today over in the good old US of A, Mr Steven Emerson, says that Birmingham is a no go area for non muslims. What a load of rubbish .As if Birmingham is totally muslim.

Only areas such as Aston, Handsworth, Lozells, Winson Green, Smethwick, Saltley, Washwood Heath, Ward End and Alum Rock, matbe others, come under the mainly muslim areas. HE should have got his facts right before making such a statement

I think the point people are trying to make with a statement like this is that the actions of terrorists are not representative of Islam. The perpetrators represent neither the doctrine nor the people of what normal everyday Muslims see as their religion.

As we have seen here, people are very quick to speak of Muslims generally as somehow agreeing with or condoning criminal murderers who say they are Muslims, but actually are as far removed as Nazis from Christians.

Think you've hit the nail on the head there Jim!

If one day the Muslim murderers gain power and rule in Europe.
Then i believe you will see ALL the good Muslim people fall into line and supporting them.

What will life be like for the non Muslim's then?

If we remove the word Muslim, your point would then be that "good" people will be forced [presumably on threat of death] to support an extremist regime like IS / A.N.Other extremist group.

Surely in that case, it wont matter what religion you are. Note that in some Middle Eastern and African countries, being Muslim is no protection from Muslim extremists.

That's because you've just messed up! There are branches of Muslim, and like the different types of Christians, they don't get on.
It's a bit like different football team supporters, the team is the god and the supporters protected that god, sometimes to the death.

The point i am making is that the good muslim folk will become bad muslim folk(by force if nessesary).

I believe those that are left will become cannon/sabre fodder.

What do you think what would happen to us rest if the murdering Muslim's take power in Europe?

Probably no different to when this little fella did a few years ago.

Listening to Radio 4 and it struck me that I cannot possibly understand any extreme religion. There was a man explaining that he loved his God/Prophet/Icon way more than he loved his own children or rest of family. This is, in my opinion, extreme and just incomprehensible as it goes against all human instinct that we have until indoctrinated.

In light of this it is easy to see how authority figures in any religion, followed to extreme, can be mis-read by their congregation/followers... and the resulting extreme actions take place if the followers think their religion is being mocked or threatened.

I can't see an answer

Beware the person who is willing to give his life for his cause; he is unlikely to care about yours.

Just to draw another parallel, think back to the concept of Manifest Destinty during the colonisation of the American West in the 1800s. Part of the idea was that God sanctioned the colonists to claim the lands.

At the time, no doubt many considered it a noble enterprise, but I'm not sure the indigenous peoples saw it that way.

Is this really any different to the forced imposition of any ideology be it religious or otherwise?

It also demonstrates that Islam is not unique in being misused for violent conquest.

A good program to watch last night was panorama I am surprised the BBC put out a program like this . Non violent extremists . I also heard on James O Brien radio program on friday a muslim man rang in to speak with James . This man could not talk as he was crying uncontrollably like a baby because of the cartoons ? James eventually got him to talk about his feelings and explain why he was crying . The futures not looking very bright .

I think we can say that about our first and second world war soldiers. Were they volunteer's? They gave thier lives. Blimey now we have to beware our own soldiers yet alone the murdering Muslim's.

What you have written then is a contradiction . And i think barnacle post was more to do with religion than national pride or fighting for your country .Correct me if i am wrong ?

There was A very good documentary program where extremists from many religions, cults, political parties and organisations, all of whom denied evolution, were presented with the facts and copious evidence.

I could understand those that refused to believe and just said it was all a conspiracy and had no faith in carbon dating etc. More worrying is that many of them who accepted that they may be wrong, were still not prepared to change their views and would continue to believe their version regardless that it was wrong.

Fanaticism and extremism is nothing new I suppose.

Yes possibly a contradiction Rob,but how i see it is that while we know the terrorist is wrong,they dont see it as wrong. They believe they are fighting/killing for thier cause and belief's and in this case it's about a faith they follow.

Maybe you ,i or a soldier would die protecting our loved one's or our freedom.
And also possibly kill to protect our cause.

Bockers has it about right saying there is no solving this problem. But in the meantime the world suffers.

Its not just the Muslim terrorists that are murdering daily.

I think you might take the point of view that while a soldier might be willing to die, it's not his primary aim; he'd much rather get through in one piece and only in exceptional circumstances choose death to complete a mission.

The religious fanatic is already convinced that paradise comes his way if he dies in action; he has nothing to lose and from his point of view everything to gain. Why should he show *you* any mercy? As far as he's concerned, you're either beneath his notice, or, if the same religion, he's giving you a free pass. Your view on the matter is immaterial to him.

Then I really need to work out where I have gone so wrong. Such heresies as loving your neighbour as yourself, laying down your life for your enemies, turning the other cheek, forgiving those who persecute you. I am not afraid of death but I am not seeking it. Perhaps I should have turned left at the end of the fanatics corridor, rather than right, as I feel much more inclined to ply people with tea and cake and put their interests before mine, than kill them.

I must be such a disappointment to so many, albeit not for the first time I am sure!

Just dont understand why the fanatics that hate the westerner's and western way of life so much, choose to live in a western society!

Also, why do some fanatics appear to Hate the way of life of a western society, but when threatened with being sent back to their homeland for a court trial come up with every human right ploy going!

Who are they kidding! you cant have your cake and eat it!

It sounds like you are that sort of person anyway Emjay and that the religion for you contains happy coincidences.

In music I see and am involved in something which involves harmony and not having to knock six bells out of each other - fanatics however will often by their very nature jostle to the front and force their views on an unsuspecting and adoring audience.

The key to me is education but our country can't very well dictate to another how to school their children...

oh wait, we have tried.

We need to continue electing world leaders who will continue to try to solve international issues by dialogue rather than fisticuffs.

Easy enough to say I know.



Edit: Germany's Pegida movement is receiving an unexpected boost after last week's events, also a R4 interview with Danes had contributors bemoaning the non-integration of Muslims into the local culture. It's concerning how much anti-feeling is potentially being stirred up.

I have started and deleted this post many times....

#illridewithyou Emjay! Or anyone else peace-loving for that matter...

I know this feeling too.

Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles.

MJ, I'm not sure I'd class you as 'fanatic'.

I know the feeling aswelll

Sensing creeping censorship here.....

Yep! been there many a times!