A terrorist is a weapon, a solider. You can't compare a terrorist to a state at war. Terrorism itself is a political act, you could compare it to "shock and awe". Designed to instil fear, to divide and create conflict within those who you are against by a group.


What I believe we should be thinking about is motivation, what's the motivation for the action and who's doing the motivating.

Yep. At last we are framing questions for debate.

If we are talking about motivation, then there are probably many.

I started listing them, but we are going over old ground a bit.

Not the motivation for individual actions as they are one and the same (I think), what is the real motivation behind Al Qaeda and I think there is a separate one behind IS (The two are opposing parties, like Labour and Conservatives but with guns and more action / less spouting lies*)

*by lies, I mean they say they'll do something and then they do it. Not a load of bollocks to get people interested and then forget what they've said.

I was a bit offended by this comment Bezzer. I know you are the creator of this thread, but you haven't actually contributed to the discussion other than a couple of liners and to have a snipe at others.

What are your thoughts on the issues ?

So letting our misguided lambs back into the country may not be such a good idea then? Who would have guessed that?

I find it utterly baffling that we've allowed fighters from Syria back into our countries.

But of course, thanks to the EU's Human Rights Act, we have no choice!

Our government needs to get back control of our borders and who we allow into the country.

Why are you offended?

My 'one liners' were I think, relevant to the thread.













Plus the one you highlighted.

If Barnacle or Jim C were offended by my comments then I apologise.

I didn't highlight the posts I thought were drivel because in the past I've had a lot of grief from certain posters who's view I didn't agree with. I'm not going through that again.


As for my thoughts, I'd rather keep them to myself.

Fair enough. But if you want to keep thoughts to yourself why start this thread ?

What is your problem?

I suspect counter intelligence agencies would not necessarily agree with such an assessment. A trip to Bletchley park will give an insight of what sacrifices sometime have to be made in order to gain the counter intelligence required.

Enigma, the book that Inspired the Film The Imitation Game, and indeed the film itself briefly cover the subject too. Though to be fair I suspect the content regarding the private life of Alan Turing would perhaps have some here suggesting we should erase his name from British history

At least the Belgiums managed to get there before the nutters!

For those with a Liberal point of view

BBC

Seems many Muslims share the same view point as the "extremists" or perhaps they should be renamed the so called extremists as a whole country is baying for blood.

If the returning people are UK citizens then we have no choice but to allow them back into the country. I'll type the next bit slowly, to make it easy to understand:
This is nothing to do with the European Human Rights Act. It originates from the Universal Declaration on Human Rights, which dates back to 1948.

Despite the best efforts of Theresa May (by some distance the person we should all be most scared of in UK politics) it is still not possible under UK (or International) Law to strip someone of their citizenship and make them stateless. It is a spectre looming on the horizon, but if we did that, where would we "send them back" to? They most definitely aren't Syrian, so who would you suggest would welcome them?
I know it's awkward and requires a bit more actual thought than populist sound-bites, but we can't just push people into the channel or fly-tip them on a runway somewhere.
Also, if these people are UK citizens, then we have a responsibility to the World to clear up our own mess, not just dump it elsewhere.

Nice try, BM, but I think your trolling needs to be a tad more subtle...

I take offence at you calling me a troll.
I think I left enough holes in my statement to allow further discussion of the Pakistani peoples reaction without resorting to that, thank you.

If I wanted to troll, which I don't, I would simply engage some of the usual points that spark outrage.

I apologise for the offence.
Could you perhaps explain why the link would interest "those with a Liberal point of view"
And also, possibly give your definition of "a whole country".
None of the Pakistanis I know are baying for blood. And, despite their unsurprising and understandable denunciation of the Charlie Hebdo cartoon, nor were the Pakistani politicians. Perhaps "a few tens of thousands joined protests organised by a fundamentalist political party" might have been more accurate.

So, with a little perspective, you might see why I thought your statement was trolling. My mistake!

I'm not intending to cause arguments, and I appologise if I am being over sensitive. I am not sure how to take the tone of your last comment.

My "problem" as you put it, simply was that you accused me and others of "spouting drivel" without qualifying your reasons. I think it is fair to push back a little.

It is easy to sit back and criticise other peoples comments, but if you do, then at least offer your own point of view rather than making such broad statemtents.

I intend no offence by saying this.

All in the name of fairness and free speech of course !

It wasn't any of your posts my 'drivel' comment was aimed at. Hope that clears up any misunderstanding?

And as I said earlier, I won't get into any discussions on here or any other Forum where religion is involved. I started this thread to reflect what was happening in Paris at the time. It has since morphed into Muslim bashing thread which I don't want to contribute to.

In that case, I think we may be both on the same hymn sheet [no pun intended]. Seems I was being oversenstive. Sorry.

Yes I believe we're both singing the same tune.

No need to apologise

Define 'many'.

200 protesters out of a religion with some 1.6 billion members is hardly representative.

More than 200 people surley, just because you don't turn up doesn't mean you disagree. Oh and the population of Pakistan is not 1.6 billion.

Jim, you spoken to people living in Pakistan today? I didn't mention those of origin, just those in the country.

The stories also changed since I linked it, it mentioned calling for the cartoonists being hung and some other stuff I can't remember. But the changes have neutered my point somewhat.

Many - defined as 'scores of'.
200 is 10 score so that's many.

It struck me yesterday that the actions of these extremists or any in fact, is much like a gang, but they have added religion to try and hide the fact. Gangs want everyone to be in their gang. They will destroy those that don't and have no tolerance for other gangs or even neutrals. They also demand absolute dedication and obedience above any family ties too.

This is not Islam, this is some mucked up hijacked version in the same way as the Nazis tried to use religion to justify their actions.

The huge majority of Muslims will disgusted with recent actions and also with those who are promoting an extreme, intolerant, but "peaceful" version of Islam. It is this extreme branch of Islam that, whilst itself says it is peaceful, is inspiring its less stable members to show their dedication to the cause by going on killing sprees. I

Although I no longer consider myself religious, I have no issue with many of them, their teachings and in many cases admire the work they do. I still consider good Christian morals to be admirable (I only single Christianity out as it is what I know, I'm sure other religions have them too), and tolerance to those whose beliefs differ from their is what has made our society so successful. That is still true of the friends of mine who are Muslims.

There has to be a way of stopping these extreme teachings, that is the challenge in our society and we all have a part to play by remaining calm, not rising to the bait these terrorist/gangs are laying and unite against this religious gang culture and those who teach and promote it.

The way to learn tolerance is through education, and the fundamentalists (of any stripe - look equally at Bible Belt America as Islamic fundamentalists in the Middle East and Africa) know this damn well: why else are they so opposed to it?

Too true Neil

Perhaps, but it also doesn't mean they definitely agree with violent retaliation.

Just because a Muslim says, "I hate Charlie Hebdo for ridiculing my religion", doesn't mean he agrees that the killing of their journalists or chucking rocks at Police is an appropriate reaction.



Now who's misquoting?

For the record, I meant in Pakistan, BM. MrsC used to run the FCO Pakistan press desk and write for a Pakistani newspaper. We know more Pakistanis in Pakistan than in the UK.

Education is only a small part of the problem . The people who ran a jeep into the airport in scotland a couple of years ago were doctors and people who traveled to syria to fight with ISIS are uni educated . You cant change a whole country like pakistan and raise the level of education on pare with the west and expect them to change . Its like trying to impose democracy on these countries that dont want it Iraq springs to mind .

You're right - it's not the complete answer; that will only come with time, and it needs the people currently led by the nose to rebel against the control of whichever priests control them... but it's the start.

I see people who claim 'the only book required in a house is the Bible|Torah|Quran|Whatever' and I despair.