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Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
#1504476
24/08/2014 17:49
24/08/2014 17:49
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digitalundgrd
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digitalundgrd
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My 16VT Coupe is in the 300+hp club now. I use it only for fun (Sat/Sun driving on track or twisty roads). Viscodrive is not up to the job anymore I decided to change the stock diff and to put Quaife or Q2 LSD in the 5-speed stock gearbox. I've read some posts here (fccuk.org) but I can't find a clear answer to the question : "WHat exactly is needed to put Quaife LSD into Coupe 5-speed gearbox?" I am with the impression that everyone who knows exactly what have to be done is keeping it "in secret". I will be very thankful if somebody would share some know-how with me so that I can change the diff by myself. I am not a mechanic so I will not steal your job or customers. Please send me PM if you don't want the information to be public I have only 2 questions: 1) Which is the correct part number for the quaife LSD that must be purchased? According to the quaife official site QDH2K-21 is for Fiat coupe and QDH6E-2 is for Alfa 156 GTA. I am a little bit confused because I have read that Coupe owners are using GTA Q2/Quaife diff?! 2) What kind of "long" drive shaft are you using (from what car) after deletion of the original drive shaft with viscodrive on it? Maybe from N/A 16v Coupe ? Thank you in advance
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1504505
24/08/2014 23:04
24/08/2014 23:04
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mr_cheese
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mr_cheese
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Standard diff not up to job? Theirs plenty of use in the 300-500hp range, using the standard diff with no problems what so ever so I am supprised but then again im talking about the 20v version but surely they cnt be to much difference?? Are you sure your diff wasnt jst worn out rather than not being able to cope? As a warn diff would give same symptoms as over power for your diff...
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1504535
25/08/2014 10:50
25/08/2014 10:50
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digitalundgrd
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digitalundgrd
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Yes. Maybe it's worn. My Coupe is one of the first produced in 1994 so viscodrive is old enough and not performing at its best. However I prefer to put Quaife or Q2 rather than new or second hand viscodrive.
Last edited by digitalundgrd; 25/08/2014 10:51.
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1504818
26/08/2014 17:44
26/08/2014 17:44
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nismo
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nismo
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Quaife over viscodrive is like night and day , had mine for a year and a half and wouldn't go back to viscodrive .
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1504825
26/08/2014 18:14
26/08/2014 18:14
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
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Did you install it Nismo?
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1504828
26/08/2014 18:42
26/08/2014 18:42
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nismo
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nismo
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it was installed by me , marco and a mate of his from autolusso who installs quaife's to alfa's so he knows what he was doing .
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1504836
26/08/2014 19:55
26/08/2014 19:55
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 549 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 549
Bulgaria
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Quaife over viscodrive is like night and day , Oh, yes......Quaife makes real difference..... Alfa 156's QUaife can be used on Coupe 16V, driveshaft is the only problem......As far as i know Autolusso sell it for 550 pounds........Guess you had my mobile .....
Last edited by Ferrarist; 26/08/2014 19:57.
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1504861
26/08/2014 22:13
26/08/2014 22:13
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digitalundgrd
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digitalundgrd
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So the Alfa 156 GTA is the one to buy. This is some info about the driveshaft but still not mentioned what exactly was modified to fit... doug, the auto lock differential (quife or q2) does a better feeling all-round the drive of the car. when braking, cornering and accellering hard, the feel is every way better than with viscodrive, and lot more stable on wet where the car can pull harder than before without too much slippery.
my car has changed totally with quaife in.
the only things to modify hardly is the driveshaft, that i've token from lancia k 2.0, worked on to adapt, and some minor work on differential box to put in the quaife.
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1504908
27/08/2014 11:17
27/08/2014 11:17
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nismo
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nismo
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we used the drive shafts from the coupe with no problems at all , the only thing I changed was the drive shaft seals for new ones and mine is a quaife for a 156gta .
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1504935
27/08/2014 15:00
27/08/2014 15:00
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digitalundgrd
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digitalundgrd
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In this case is the drive shaft long enough after deletion of the viscodrive unit?
Last edited by digitalundgrd; 27/08/2014 15:00.
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1504950
27/08/2014 15:48
27/08/2014 15:48
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nismo
Unregistered
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nismo
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yes but you need to use the o/s gta seal cover and a different seal . if you need any info or the seal and cover plate then give marco a call @ http://www.torqueautomotiveltd.co.uk/
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1504994
27/08/2014 19:42
27/08/2014 19:42
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mr_cheese
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mr_cheese
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it was installed by me , marco and a mate of his from autolusso who installs quaife's to alfa's so he knows what he was doing . Hi nismo, any chance you can explain just what benefits over the stock unit? Only issue i have is in the wet i do get wheel spin when i get to full boost around 5/6 k, always jst put it down to the wet rd, not thought about the diff not up to the job.. Im running around the 360 hp with my 20vt and the one thing i would like is better handling, done all the usual mods but not thought about the quafie but if their realy is such a BIG differance thats the next item to purchase on the never ending list of mods! Lol..
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1504997
27/08/2014 19:53
27/08/2014 19:53
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,226 FCSS 01684 593187
Countrycruising
Club Rep Europe, member 914
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Club Rep Europe, member 914
Forum veteran
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,226
FCSS 01684 593187
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Quaife diffs are not plug and play, they need to be pre-tensioned correctly along with the right seals otherwise your crown wheel will float in the bearings and it'll leak all your gearbox oil. I've been running my Quaife for a few years now and the difference between Visco and Quaife is as Ian has already stated, night and day and loads of fun, especially in the wet left foot braking when on boost If anyone goes for a Quaife make sure it's correctly fitted by someone who knows what they're doing. Quaife themselves cover these with a life times guarantee from memory but read the small print as it states a recognised garage/specialist needs to install.
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1505001
27/08/2014 20:22
27/08/2014 20:22
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nismo
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nismo
Unregistered
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totally agree with you Joe , its not something I would have installed on my own , a specialist is required for install and one who knows what he's doing .
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1505158
28/08/2014 15:43
28/08/2014 15:43
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390 Essex
Trappy
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
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it was installed by me , marco and a mate of his from autolusso who installs quaife's to alfa's so he knows what he was doing . Hi nismo, any chance you can explain just what benefits over the stock unit? Only issue i have is in the wet i do get wheel spin when i get to full boost around 5/6 k, always jst put it down to the wet rd, not thought about the diff not up to the job.. Im running around the 360 hp with my 20vt and the one thing i would like is better handling, done all the usual mods but not thought about the quafie but if their realy is such a BIG differance thats the next item to purchase on the never ending list of mods! Lol.. Nigel's review
F****** b****** thing...
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1528896
09/03/2015 18:44
09/03/2015 18:44
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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Today I have installed quaife diff into my gearbox.
I have used my original long driveshaft (28mm diameter). Viscodrive is removed and custom gearbox oil seal (28x50x10mm) is used + seal cover from jtd gearbox(diesel).
Last edited by digitalundgrd; 09/03/2015 18:44.
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1528929
09/03/2015 21:01
09/03/2015 21:01
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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Yes. If you have all the parts and the tools you need it is 2 1/2 - 3h job
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1530164
17/03/2015 11:23
17/03/2015 11:23
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
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I have driven the coupe with the new diff during the 3 day alfisti.gr event(150km at the track).
My impressions :
- almost no understeer and no spinning of the inside tyre while cornering. A lot of grip through the front wheels! - rear end of the car became very sensitive and it wanted to oversteer most of the time. I am using 22mm whiteline rear ARB if this fact does matter. - the steering feels strange when I first drove the car with this diff. I can describe it like driving with low pressure in the tyres compared to what was before. The steering wheel always "wants" to make the front wheels to point straight ahead. Even when I steer left or right I can feel some kind of force that pulls the steering wheel to the central position. Is that normal?
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1530224
17/03/2015 16:24
17/03/2015 16:24
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 549 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 549
Bulgaria
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I don't want to rise discussion, but IMHO fitting stiffer rear ARB, without changing front with stiffer as well, on a heavy-weight-front-end FWD car as Coupe will produce a lot of oversteer..... Have front 26mm Eibach bar from my Alfa 156's, and i plan to fit it to my Coupe, and did a try with and without 23mm rear bar.... Below is a simple quote from "Competition car suspension" book.....a great resource.....
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1530226
17/03/2015 16:29
17/03/2015 16:29
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Gimmo
Unregistered
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Gimmo
Unregistered
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I was on Per's car, with uprated ARB and camber bolts on the front, and by passenger, I think that the car has got very great handling.
Mine T20 (full stock) seems it doesn't want to turn, instead of Per's car that seems to have rear wheel steering!
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1530228
17/03/2015 16:36
17/03/2015 16:36
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Hi Ferrarist
I understand your point, but seeing as the Coupe suffers from understeer as standard, uprating the rear ARB will simply reduce the understeer - it won't automatically push it into oversteer
On my Sprint Blue Coupe, I originally tried uprated front AND rear ARBs - roll was reduced, but understeer remained. I then had the front ARB returned to standard and kept the uprated rear. It transformed the car - it was totally planted at ridiculous speeds, yet nimble through twisty bits.
However, after the Quaife was fitted, the balance was disturbed - it has the feeling of falling into oversteer (but never actually does, although I'm not sure I'd like to have to jump on the brakes at high speed on a gentle curve - feels like it will let go)
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1530242
17/03/2015 18:00
17/03/2015 18:00
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
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Maybe it is like driving fwd car with full race slicks at the front wheels and normal street tyres at the rear wheels. You have so much grip at the front that you are confident to push hard into the corners but then suddenly your rear can't reach this level of grip and it just let go...
So IMO quaife makes the front end of the car too grippy but then you don't have the same grip at the back and the thicker rear ARB makes the things even worse causing oversteer...
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: Nigel]
#1530254
17/03/2015 20:02
17/03/2015 20:02
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 549 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 549
Bulgaria
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Hi Ferrarist
I understand your point, but seeing as the Coupe suffers from understeer as standard, uprating the rear ARB will simply reduce the understeer - it won't automatically push it into oversteer Agree with above...... We discuss very car-to-car specific matter......personally for me FWD car must be prone to bit of understeer, because it's easier to correct.....if fwd car oversteers mid or in corner entry - it's nightmare to avoid spin..... And vice versa - rwd car wont suffer from bit of oversteer..... And it's matter of car balance, weight transfer, suspension setup and a lot more..... I drove same car fwd, then it was rwd, lot of weight in front when fwd, perfect 45-55% balance when was rwd and mid-engined, did not tried twin-engine car still .....Did trackdays only with full slicks - nothing can change car's behaviour most than ARB and tire pressure, assuming that suspension and springs works fine..... And i'm pretty sure that WE ALL can make wrong assumption about car's behaviour when on track - sometimes i had a feeling that the car handles worst than before, but laptimes and available telemetry state otherwise...... We may try to be very addicted amateurs, but way too far from profis...... Is it possible that any of these symptoms are caused by the lack of viscodrive, rather than the addition of the Quaife? ie is the Quaife more free in normal driving than the visco which might somehow affect the balance or make the handling feel different?
Guess no - Quaife can make things only better.... Maybe it is like driving fwd car with full race slicks at the front wheels and normal street tyres at the rear wheels When your car oversteers - after braking in corner entry, mid corner, or when throttle applied on exit?
Last edited by Ferrarist; 17/03/2015 20:09.
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1530267
17/03/2015 21:04
17/03/2015 21:04
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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Rear end feels twitchy and prone to oversteer :
1) in fast and long corners while 70-80% throttle is applied. For example at the Serres circuit sections: K2-K3-K4 and K11-K12-K13
2) after braking in corner entry (especially when is damp)
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Re: Quaife/Q2 LSD know-how needed
[Re: ]
#1530277
17/03/2015 21:51
17/03/2015 21:51
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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in fast and long corners while 70-80% throttle is applied. So - we have some differences - when I'm accelerating, I have no feelings of oversteer at all. At very high speeds (120+) in long corners while simply maintaining speed, it starts to feel a little loose at the back end. If I lift off the throttle, it needs a corrective input on the steering wheel. I think I have a combination of factors contributing - a bit too much camber, a very stiff front end and also different tyres (Continental on the front, Toyo on the rear). I think I'll do a front-rear swap on the wheels to see if it makes a difference - its a no-cost experiment, so definitely worth trying Also - I've had an email reply from Quaife - we are arranging a time for a chat on the phone
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