help if caught speeding

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help if caught speeding #153650 22/07/2006 05:34 22/07/2006 05:34
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	If any of you guys are caught speeding,I have info off MCN (motor cycle news) that might get you off. I have tried it and so far I have not heard anything off plod...only time will tell but it is better than nothing. It is basically some legal mumbo jumbo that is the shape of a letter you send them in replyl to the NIP (notice of intended prosecution). I am on holiday in about 1 hour so i need someone to get it off me quick so they can pass it on.....this is thE real deal! It IS going to the European court of human rights! SOMEBODY REPLY.... Last edited by spit; 22/07/2006 05:35.

Re: help if caught speeding #153651 22/07/2006 05:36 22/07/2006 05:36
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Is this the 'PACE' statement?

Re: help if caught speeding #153652 22/07/2006 05:37 22/07/2006 05:37
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	sounds good... especially if you dont get done doing 80 odd in a 40.. tell me more

Re: help if caught speeding #153653 22/07/2006 05:38 22/07/2006 05:38
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	thats the baby.....so far I have just had a threatening letter off them but nothing else so I hope it works

Re: help if caught speeding #153654 22/07/2006 05:39 22/07/2006 05:39
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	PACE?? not heard of that... anyone care to explain?

Re: help if caught speeding #153655 22/07/2006 05:39 22/07/2006 05:39
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	send your email addy and I will forward it....you do the same as well to the other law breakers Last edited by spit; 22/07/2006 05:40.

Re: help if caught speeding #153656 22/07/2006 06:00 22/07/2006 06:00
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: PACE?? not heard of that... anyone care to explain? ive sent it but you need winrar to extract it...easy stuff....ask anyone.... give ti to everyone else because im out of here soon

Re: help if caught speeding #153657 22/07/2006 06:13 22/07/2006 06:13
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	nice one for that... anyone want it let me know.. enjoy your holiday

Re: help if caught speeding #153658 22/07/2006 06:29 22/07/2006 06:29
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	ta...im offy soon....have fun guys.....although i have a nissan now ...i will always be a coop guy first ! spit

Re: help if caught speeding #153659 22/07/2006 06:34 22/07/2006 06:34
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: nice one for that... anyone want it let me know.. enjoy your holiday where are you chilling....it would be nice to meet up in 2 weeks when i get back spit Last edited by spit; 22/07/2006 06:35.

Re: help if caught speeding #153660 22/07/2006 15:41 22/07/2006 15:41
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	can you send it to me please

Re: help if caught speeding #153661 22/07/2006 15:50 22/07/2006 15:50
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	(I am told) all you really have to do to get off a speeding offence is define "reasonable diligence" with regards to section 172.4 of the road traffic act: Quote: A person shall not be guilty of an offence by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above if he shows that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was. And apparently it has got at least one lucky chap off 4 separate speeding NIPs.

Re: help if caught speeding #153662 22/07/2006 16:10 22/07/2006 16:10
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: can you send it to me please pm me your email and ill forward it on to you when i get home... like spit said it needs winrar to open... which i havent got so i havent looked at the attachment yet.

Re: help if caught speeding #153663 22/07/2006 16:20 22/07/2006 16:20
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,285 Manchester GraemeC Competition Level
GraemeC Competition Level Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,285 Manchester	Everything you could ever want to know about contesting speeding tickets is on PePiPoo - its probably where Motorcycle News got their article from.... It is hard to understand how a cemetery can raise burial rates and blame it on the cost of living

Re: help if caught speeding #153664 23/07/2006 16:58 23/07/2006 16:58
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,470 Scottish Borders G_Man Club member 1656
G_Man Club member 1656 My job on the forum Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,470 Scottish Borders	Lads, Don't want to be a kill joy but aren't you loosing sight of the fact that we are bound by speed restrictions and there are reasons for them. I'd fully expect the full weight of the law on anyone doing 80 in a 40 or speeding in any built up area. The news has regular stories of people killed with speeders in urban areas. Although I'm not plod - I have undergone a couple of advance/pursuit courses and I doubt that many general drivers appreciate how exhausting concentration and anticipation for other road users and pedestrians, hazards etc when speeding. Enjoy the car in areas where it is safe to do so......... 77 77

Re: help if caught speeding #153665 24/07/2006 02:43 24/07/2006 02:43
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	CAn you send us a copy please? Would make good reading

Re: help if caught speeding #153666 24/07/2006 03:01 24/07/2006 03:01
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 33,561 Berlin barnacle Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio Forum Demigod Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 33,561 Berlin	Wahay! Alan, you saved me the effort - but I'm going to do it anyway... if you don't want a speeding ticket, don't speed... Neil Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!

Re: help if caught speeding #153667 24/07/2006 03:27 24/07/2006 03:27
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Good advise... i havent even looked at it yet just distributing for spit while he is on holiday. alan

Re: help if caught speeding #153668 06/08/2006 06:09 06/08/2006 06:09
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Lads, Don't want to be a kill joy but aren't you loosing sight of the fact that we are bound by speed restrictions and there are reasons for them. I'd fully expect the full weight of the law on anyone doing 80 in a 40 or speeding in any built up area. The news has regular stories of people killed with speeders in urban areas. Although I'm not plod - I have undergone a couple of advance/pursuit courses and I doubt that many general drivers appreciate how exhausting concentration and anticipation for other road users and pedestrians, hazards etc when speeding. Enjoy the car in areas where it is safe to do so......... You W#NKER!! Last edited by spit; 06/08/2006 06:10.

Re: help if caught speeding #153669 06/08/2006 09:35 06/08/2006 09:35
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Lads, Don't want to be a kill joy but aren't you loosing sight of the fact that we are bound by speed restrictions and there are reasons for them. I'd fully expect the full weight of the law on anyone doing 80 in a 40 or speeding in any built up area. The news has regular stories of people killed with speeders in urban areas. Although I'm not plod - I have undergone a couple of advance/pursuit courses and I doubt that many general drivers appreciate how exhausting concentration and anticipation for other road users and pedestrians, hazards etc when speeding. Enjoy the car in areas where it is safe to do so......... LOL!! Why are people who moralise about speeding always called Alan?

Re: help if caught speeding #153670 06/08/2006 10:22 06/08/2006 10:22
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Just reading through the literature on the PACE statement, as I understand it, the point is supposed to be that your declaration of your identity as the driver cannot be used in order to penalise you. BUT, if the speed detector provides a photograph of the vehicle and shows the driver, couldn't they use that as evidence instead of your own declaration? MUST they use your own declaration as proof that you were driving?

Re: help if caught speeding #153671 06/08/2006 18:12 06/08/2006 18:12
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	So your car (assumed the speeding car is registered to you) is being / has been driven by persons unknown, presumably without your permission. Driving a car without the owners permission is theft, usually called TWOC. Sir was unaware that his car was stolen? If so he didn't report it? Why not? Is Sir aware of the large heap of bricks that will fall on him in Court if he give false evidence and its proved he did know who the driver was? This also neatly leads into questions about vehicle tax & insurance (and unapproved mods again??) Fair cop officer, pay the fine. The alternative is likely to trip you up big time. Last edited by Skodaman; 06/08/2006 18:20.

Re: help if caught speeding #153672 06/08/2006 18:21 06/08/2006 18:21
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: So your car (assumed the speeding car is registered to you) is being / has been driven by persons unknown, presumably without your permission. Driving a car without the owners permission is theft, usually called TWOC. Sir was unaware that his car was stolen? If so he didn't report it? Why not? Is Sir aware of the large heap of bricks that will fall on him in Court if he give false evidence and its proved he did know who the driver was? Fair cop officer, pay the fine. The alternative is likely to trip you up big time. Bollocks. My wife drives my car and I drive hers, the pool car at work is driven by at least 5 people regularly. No possibility of TWOC there, all insured and all legal. So reasonable doubt? I would say so. There is no legal requirement to keep a log of who drives a car, despite what some may suggest.

Re: help if caught speeding #153673 06/08/2006 18:37 06/08/2006 18:37
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Not bollocks. The company would be liable for any accident in the event of a pool car, group insurance but the cops would insist on finding the driver in the event of a prosecution..like interviewing the 5 permitted drivers to find who was driving. Your company doesn't keep a log of pool car use for mileage/servicing/fuel etc..unusual?? Before you start mouthing off..if the cops want the driver then they will find him/her..fact. I suggest you try this defence next time you get a ticket and see how far it gets you. Telling porkies to Cops / Court is a very silly thing to do and might get you a big fine or a short stay somewhere unpleasant. This must be an under 25's topic..lets all avoid our responsibilities, hammer around in fast cars and then try and wriggle out when we get caught. Part of being an adult is facing the consequences of your actions, grow up. Last edited by Skodaman; 06/08/2006 18:44.

Re: help if caught speeding #153674 06/08/2006 19:01 06/08/2006 19:01
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	I haven't been under 25 for nearly 20 years, I just object to being fined for exceeding an arbitrary limit in many cases set before I was born. Driving dangerously is wrong, but exceeding the limit in a modern car is no way dangerous except in extreme circumstances. I exceed the speed limit at some point in every journey, and so does pretty much everyone else. And no, we don't keep a log at work and neither do I at home. If you think that it is possible to identify the driver by a picture of the back of a car then you are wrong. The defence is well known as the Hamilton defence, named after a married couple that got off for the reason described above ie the car was certainly exceeding the limit but there was no way of identifying the driver.

Re: help if caught speeding #153675 06/08/2006 19:29 06/08/2006 19:29
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 9,706 Gone J Jimbo Je suis un Coupé
Jimbo Je suis un Coupé J Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 9,706 Gone	Spit, keep it clean or this will be locked, if your not open to other peoples opinion then dont post a thread like this !

Re: help if caught speeding #153676 06/08/2006 19:31 06/08/2006 19:31
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Obviously never heard of the alternative to a speeding conviction..that of convicting the registered keeper of the vehicle of failing to provide details of the driver. Its not your decision to choose what laws you break or obey. That is pure arrogance on your part. We live in something called a democracy...if you don't like speed limits, traffic lights or alternative opinions then get elected and change them, other wise shut up and lump it like the rest of us. Last edited by Skodaman; 06/08/2006 19:32.

Re: help if caught speeding #153677 06/08/2006 19:39 06/08/2006 19:39
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Obviously never heard of the alternative to a speeding conviction..that of convicting the registered keeper of the vehicle of failing to provide details of the driver. Its not your decision to choose what laws you break or obey. That is pure arrogance on your part. We live in something called a democracy...if you don't like speed limits, traffic lights or alternative opinions then get elected and change them, other wise shut up and lump it like the rest of us. So you have dropped your 'TWOCing' argument, you're not claiming that speeding is always dangerous, and also forgetting that 'A person shall not be guilty of an offence by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above if he shows that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was.' Now I have to get elected to prove you are wrong? What next? And I suppose that you never exceed any speed limit? It would be a bit hypocritical if you did, wouldn't it? Last edited by David_S; 06/08/2006 19:42.

Re: help if caught speeding #153678 06/08/2006 19:48 06/08/2006 19:48
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	I do. And if I get caught and I did it I pay. Try it..now shut up.

Re: help if caught speeding #153679 06/08/2006 19:52 06/08/2006 19:52
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: I do. And if I get caught and I did it I pay. Try it..now shut up. Another armchair warrior, it is very easy to tell people to shut up when you are hundreds of miles apart. I think it is safe to assume that you lost that argument now that you have resorted to playground responses.

Re: help if caught speeding #153680 06/08/2006 19:56 06/08/2006 19:56
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Well boy..try all the above. I'll be the one in the public bench laughing when you get a conviction. Now go and exercise some more civil rights with another 'Readers Digest' guide to law. Last edited by Skodaman; 06/08/2006 20:06.

Re: help if caught speeding #153681 06/08/2006 20:29 06/08/2006 20:29
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Bending over and taking your punishment may be your style, not mine. I work on the old fashioned principle 'innocent until PROVEN guilty', you may have heard of it?

Re: help if caught speeding #153682 06/08/2006 21:20 06/08/2006 21:20
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Chaps, lets try not to turn this into a "Barryboys thread"...

Re: help if caught speeding #153683 06/08/2006 21:25 06/08/2006 21:25
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 17,917 J JimO Forum veteran
JimO Forum veteran J Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 17,917	Sorry to butt in, but if you break the law and get caught, take the punishment, don't go tieing up the police / courts time with the bullshit. If you are a big enough of a man to speed, surely you can take the shafting a few extra points will give you. And please, I am not a preacher, I have 9 points for speeding, when i was driving too fast and I got caught. As for innocent until proven guilty, surely the fact they caught you speeding proves you were guilty, you are just trying to exploit a legal loophole!

Re: help if caught speeding #153684 06/08/2006 22:01 06/08/2006 22:01
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	A law that is broken by so many people so often is a bad law. Are there any motorists in the country who have not broken the speed limit at least 4 times in a three year period? 12 points is a ban, so theoreticaly there should be almost no motorists on the roads today. It is naive to believe that the current persecution of the motorist is about safety, it is about revenue and if I can deny them any of that revenue I will.

Re: help if caught speeding #153685 06/08/2006 22:16 06/08/2006 22:16
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	I apologise for insulting you earlier..but there are things in life you can't avoid..Marriage, taxes, speeding / parking fines etc..accept it..especially as you did it. So its a bad law..petition your MP to get it changed. I confess to being somewhat older than you, probably an old codger, bus pass etc etc but once I were a Wagistrate down on the bench in Mangle Worzle Land (Somerset to you)and nothing hacked the bench off more than a guy who did it and then quoted half baked sections of law to try and wriggle out of it. The fastest way to get convicted, regardless of right or wrong is to f* the beak. Last edited by Skodaman; 06/08/2006 22:21.

Re: help if caught speeding #153686 06/08/2006 22:28 06/08/2006 22:28
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	If you can afford a good solicitor (and I can) you have a good chance of being found not guilty (careful choice of words there). I drive at a speed that I, as a responsible adult, consider to be safe, taking into consideration the road type, weather conditions and vehicle. What I strongly object to is being prosecuted because I have exceeded an arbitrary speed limit that has no relevance to the level of danger that I am posing. There is no discretion shown by the automated speed detection equipment used today, which is wrong. Incidently, I have no points on my license, make of that what you will.

Re: help if caught speeding #153687 06/08/2006 22:44 06/08/2006 22:44
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	With the greatest respect you have obviously never been prosecuted for speeding and never appeared in court. The Mags have little discretion. If the limit was X and you were doing Y (usually X + 10% in practise but not in law) then my son you are guilty, regardless of how many highly paid and smart lawyers you have. They will ask you for a reason for speeding and very rarely accept it and mitigate. But a statement that you don't agree with the law will achieve the opposite. Bit like underage sex..'She looked a big girl and said she was 18' but her birth cert said 15. No defence. If you are wealthy (and stupid) you could appeal the matter to Crown Court but the penalties are likely to be stiffer and zip chance of success. However I'm wasting my time because you obviously know better and can't accept anybody else knowing more about the subject than you do.

Re: help if caught speeding #153688 06/08/2006 23:08 06/08/2006 23:08
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Speeding is an absolute offence and therefore complete if it is proven that the accused exceeded the speed limit by as little as 1 mph. There are no excuses which can be used to avoid prosecution once it has been established that you were the driver and that the speed limit was exceeded, excuses may mitigate the penalty but not the offence itself. However, before you can be found guilty it must be proved that you were the driver at the time of the offence and that the speed limit was actually exceeded. There are many, many ways that either or both of those conditions can be successfully challenged, and there are more than a few solicitors that make a very good living doing just that.

Re: help if caught speeding #153689 06/08/2006 23:20 06/08/2006 23:20
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,470 Scottish Borders G_Man Club member 1656
G_Man Club member 1656 My job on the forum Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,470 Scottish Borders	Quote: Quote: Lads, Don't want to be a kill joy but aren't you loosing sight of the fact that we are bound by speed restrictions and there are reasons for them. I'd fully expect the full weight of the law on anyone doing 80 in a 40 or speeding in any built up area. The news has regular stories of people killed with speeders in urban areas. Although I'm not plod - I have undergone a couple of advance/pursuit courses and I doubt that many general drivers appreciate how exhausting concentration and anticipation for other road users and pedestrians, hazards etc when speeding. Enjoy the car in areas where it is safe to do so......... You W#NKER!! Spit Ease up a little mate - no need to get personal. Just stating a point of view but obviously reason and diplomacy is not your strong point. Didn't want to say earlier but friends of ours back in Jockland lost a little un some years ago outside a school due to some w#nker speeding. Perhaps I should invite some of their comments on this thread.......? 77 77

Re: help if caught speeding #153690 06/08/2006 23:29 06/08/2006 23:29
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Nobody is saying that it is OK to drive like a lunatic outside schools during term time. But 80 on an empty motorway in clear conditions? Or 50 in a 40 just before it turns to NSL? There are many cases when speed in excess of the limit is appropriate, and other times when even 30 in a 30 is too fast. The current obsession with speed enforcement does not focus on safety, it focuses on revenue.

Re: help if caught speeding #153691 07/08/2006 00:54 07/08/2006 00:54
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	I just want to say one thing and then I am out of here. I agree with David_S on one point at least. If it is true that there is a legal loophole, and that it is possible to avert prosecution by employing it, then the law needs to be tightened up, which it probably will be. In the meantime, no-one is obliged to incriminate himself. If it is true that legally a caution must precede prosecution, or whatever, then the police are not conducting themselves appropriately. And if they are not following the required procedure, so that they can only convict on the basis of our co-operation, in the form of self-incrimination, I cannot see the argument for going down that road. Here endeth the lesson.

Re: help if caught speeding #153692 07/08/2006 01:07 07/08/2006 01:07
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	David_S seems heavy on theory and very light on reality, wonder if he drives a Bentley??? The offence of speeding is absolute however as I stated (and unlike I suspect, the majority) I have sat on the bench and in practise there is normally a small undefined margin allowed unless there was something else in the charge..no insurance, disqualified etc. Of course if you have an arrogant know-it-all driver in the dock who's trying to be clever then the margin becomes exceptionally small. Also don't forget that if it was a speeding pull..not camera then the officers opinion is taken into account..thus 25 in a 30 powering past riders and horses might be prosecuted as without due care or reckless. I'm out of here too..this is like trying to reason with a child.

Re: help if caught speeding #153693 07/08/2006 01:15 07/08/2006 01:15
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	can i just butt in here, there isnt a place called jockland I think alan means scotland, just to clear that up for you guys carry on

Re: help if caught speeding #153694 07/08/2006 01:25 07/08/2006 01:25
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: David_S seems heavy on theory and very light on reality, wonder if he drives a Bentley??? The offence of speeding is absolute however as I stated (and unlike I suspect, the majority) I have sat on the bench and in practise there is normally a small undefined margin allowed unless there was something else in the charge..no insurance, disqualified etc. Of course if you have an arrogant know-it-all driver in the dock who's trying to be clever then the margin becomes exceptionally small. Also don't forget that if it was a speeding pull..not camera then the officers opinion is taken into account..thus 25 in a 30 powering past riders and horses might be prosecuted as without due care or reckless. I'm out of here too..this is like trying to reason with a child. I'm still waiting for you to justify your TWOCing argument.

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