Stepson Major is rapidly approaching the age of majority and has the great good fortune that his great-grandparents put aside a sum for him once he turns 18.
He is currently learning to drive and is very keen to spend the money on buying a car, insuring and running it.
Given that he pisses most of his earnings up the wall on ridiculous trainers and watches (in the misguided belief that he is some sort of "gangsta"), MrsC and I are determined that this lump sum should go into something tangible and not disappear in the same way.
The brief, you will be amazed to hear, is a mildly warm hatchback with a farty exhaust and "sick" rims that doesn't scare away every insurance company in the country.
Stepson has said he doesn't mind what he gets, "as long as it sounds the tits".
I'm not convinced that a mighty 1.4 with a coffee can welded on the back will do justice to that poetic description, but I've been asked to help him choose something that satisfies all parties.
Naturally, he wanted a Corsa or a Fiesta, but since I showed him this and since he has fallen in love with the Coupé ("do you reckon I could get insured on it?" - I've just about stopped laughing about that one), he's a bit of a Fiat convert.

What do the panel reckon? Is there a better car out there that looks good, has the requisite mammary audio characteristics and won't break the bank in any one direction?

- I should add that the total budget for car, insurance and any work required is £5k. Obviously, he will be earning some money to contribute to consumables, so that doesn't have to be wholly included in the 5 grand.

I can solve all your problems in one go:

Fanny Magnet

add this

Willy enlarger

An you have rapid little box of fun that sounds good.

Might possibly be the same set up as me

My son was similarly influenced by me to go down the Fiat route. We both quite liked the (newer) Bravo but the Grande Punto is more readily available, we ended up with an 2011 "Evo" model (with the short-lived and not universally liked chrome strip and fussy front end) for £3k, only a 1.2 8v model (so not loud, exhaust wise, nor powerful), but cheaper to insure than larger engined versions (cheaper than a Fiesta for example) and quite well spec'd (Blue n me, start/stop). The Active versions with wheel covers and black door handles do look (and are) cheaper compared to the next spec level up (Dynamic, my son's is a "MyLife" ) and occasionally you might find an Eleganza.

The Fiat is striking, but small engines and high mileages may lead to more repairs than one would want to tinker with.

Newer Punto and less miles but possibly not loud enough? The rest are probably also to grown up

Mazda2

Suzuki Swift Sport

Peugeot 207

Mito

When looking, put the number plate into an insurance comparison site to see what you get. Whilst learning to drive, insurance will be "cheaper" (he'll always be accompanied by a fully licensed driver), but often that insurance is invalidated once test passed, then the real cost kicks in, so check that too (assume he's a year older and passed test already) for different cars.

I'd love a 100HP Panda! Great fun!

I've recently been down the young driver insurance path for my stepdaughter, who got ripped off with an unsuitable policy that used a tracker. She's now ended up with a car on a lease and insured by Marmalade - pretty good overall. Stepson satisfies virtually none of the criteria to do the same.
I might look at the weedier 8V models, but I'm not sure I'll be able to talk the lad down! The 100bhp Panda with the trick exhaust looks fab, but I doubt that view will be shared by gangsta-boi or insurance companies!

Jim, just been down the same route with number one son myself, including the 'can I drive the Coupe' bit!

We've ended up with a 03 plate Mini one, with 60K on the clock and in truly excellent condition, as attested by my constant banging on about 'when I were a lad my first car was a bag of gravel with castors on...etc etc'

It satisfies many conditions for us, it was cheap (2.5k, he paid half), it's safe, reasonably slow, cheapish to insure, small enough he can't fit half a dozen pissed idiots in, reliable and tidy enough that he'll not want to destroy it.

It satisfies many conditions for him it's 'cool' or the equivalent teen speak, endlessly modable in many ways (graphics, plastic shit, wheels, exhausts the list is truly endless), has a 'banging stereo' that does iPhone stuff and is quick enough for a first car (feels quicker than it is).

Honestly it's a really nice car, I'd happily drive it, it even has aircon and a computer for god's sake!! See when I were a lad, air conditioning was a bloody window..... uh oh, I'm off again.

In fact, it's made me consider a JCW Mini for when I downsize from the A6

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2004-FIAT-STILO-DYNAMIC-1-9-JTD-BLACK-Ideal-first-car-/291763679565?hash=item43ee78714d:g:Le8AAOSwS7hXAUJ5

Very very reliable, 8v jtd. Insurance group 4.

Jim - I rather doubt that any insurance company will touch him on a Grande Punto Sporting T-Jet - its 120 bhp and a pretty punchy little motor (wifey has had one for several years and loves it)

Even a boggo standard 1.2 is going to be a stretch on the insurance and as soon as there's a whiff of mods such as bigger wheels or farty back-boxes, the premiums will go exponential - I think he's going to have to lower his sights a bit.....

Thanks, everyone. This is clearly the beginning of a long and winding road! Let's hope the teenager can keep it on the black stuff... I hadn't realised how pokey the t-jet was. Will undoubtedly be a problem. The Mini One was his sister's first car; not having something different/better will be very hard to sell!
Ah well, I had a phone call tonight from MrsC to say that the Peugeot's clutch has gone, so all this may on the back-burner for a bit...

In the 807???

Maybe you could do a deal at the Clutch Centre and pick this beauty up for the wannabe gangsta....

Yup, the 807. I'm in Lyon till this evening with my daughter, so I can't investigate, but MrsC said the car wouldn't move forward and filled with smoke with the unmistakable aroma of clutch. Utterly hacked off, though mainly because I'm not there to deal with it.

Not so sure about that Punto - if the description claims it has front fog lights, what else has it got wrong?!

Jim - check out the headlamp clusters on the yellow Punto - the fog lamps are integrated

For someone handy with the spanners, that's a decent-looking car - both my lads have had several Puntos each - not exactly fast, but mostly reliable when looked after and pretty easy to fix when the inevitable happens...

My daughter has a little Punto. Cracking little car which apart from a couple of minor niggles (wiper arm linkage and snapped bonnet cable) has been fautless for the 12 months she's had it.



I'm sure a yellow one, with added tints, 'sporty' exhaust and some fancy wheel trims would fit in fine down at Maccy D's.

I'll put it forward, but will don flame-proof suit first...

I have a 1.4 8v "povo pack" Grande Punto in my garage as it is "she who must be obeyed's" everyday driver. We use it to when we go on holidays and as the shopping cart. The 5 doors are certainly great and the car has been very reliable over 8 years of ownership.

Would recommend it as a "first car" but, has it got enough bling and noise for the young lad?

Look at the SIZE of this beauty!!

Can you imagine what a 1.2 litre sounds like exiting that beast!

Not sure where your based,

But happy to show your lad (and you) what the 100hp is all about. Perhaps include a pub lunch or similar?

I believe Mr C resides in Stroud in deepest darkest Gloucestershire.....

Quick jaunt down the M4 then. But before getting carried away with such heady power figures, do check the insurance implications, you/stepson might then change your mind. My first car (a Fiat, naturally, had all of 34 bhp)

My first car, a 1982 1000cc Panda had 40 bhp, I think and I could get into trouble with just that!

Our eldest keeps asking about insurance on the XKR. It still frightens me at times. I'm not letting someone who can't yet drive in smooth lines loose in it!

Stepson and I have spent a couple of hours looking at cars and insurance. I've been looking at quotes on the basis that he has passed his test (as DaveG says, it is usually higher). The T-Jet is (predictably) out of the equation, as the insurance quotes all start with a 4!

He ruled out the Punto - he just doesn't like it and the 1.2 Grande Puntos were mostly 5-door "granny cars". We then found a couple of Grande Punto 1.4 16V Sporting cars, with a subtle body kit and alloys. Cheapest TPFT (with me registered as a named driver) was Admiral at £1360. Although it's a grotesque amount (almost as much as the car), it's pretty much what I expected, and the lad seems happy with it.

Going to see this beauty on Monday. If it looks ok and we can knock off a couple of hundred, the search might be short but sweet...

One extreme to the other! That looks quite mature

Looks in good shape too. Hope it turns out to be a good one.

That's way too nice for a first car Jim!
He'll probably knock the corners off it in no time.

Is there anything in particular we should look out for with the car (assuming it doesn't get sold over the weekend?). Stepson can't test drive it, so it'll be up to me.

Are there any known issues with the Grande Punto?

Thanks all...

Main one that a lot seem to suffer from is rust at the brake servo which if not fixed will end up with wet driver's footwell soaking back to rear passenger side.

For details see :
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sinister/GP_Leak.pdf

Other than that I've had to replace most front suspension on my Grande Punto due to worn bushes knocking, but compared to my previous Punto (a Mk. II) which was rusting to bits and when I got rid of it at 10 years old the MOT advisory list was onto 2 pages the GP has been good, 9 years old and no advisories at last MOT.

Thanks Graham. I'll give it a good check-over for rust and see if a test drive reveals any knocking, etc. The only advisories - according to the totalcarcheck website have been for brake pads/discs, tyres, an oil leak and corrosion on the exhaust. The latest MOT (in January this year) had no advisories, but that might mean nothing, given as they are discretionary. If it looks promising, I'll do a full check.

Punto GT turbo

From what I'very read, classic car insurance is only £280 a year. I'm not sure if this applys to 18 year olds

Thanks for the tip, Dan. Stepson really doesn't like the Punto (of any non-Grande type!). I'd be amazed if anyone would insure an 18-year-old in any car with the words "GT" and "Turbo" for £280. Unless that's per week...!

Had my Grande Punto for more than 8 years from new Jim.

Very few problems with it, a broken front spring probably due to the speed humps all over the place here and the clutch release bearing occasionally made funny noises from new, never when it was at the dealership of course.

It turned out to have seized so was not turning, simply wearing itself and the clutch diaphragm arms to pieces. It was a 2 hour job to change the clutch on the drive last year.

No corrosion problems, really reliable never failed to complete a journey. Its a 1.3 diesel Dynamic model.

Can't see any point in changing it for another car in the near future.

Well, we went to see it and... it was a nice little car; clean, fully ramped and stamped. So, Stepson knocked the dealer down to £1750 and bagged himself his first car. Hopefully, his record over his driving career will be better than mine!

Ah yes, I forgot the springs... both my front springs broke within a month of each other at under 30K miles.

I think this one has had some front suspension work done. It felt fine on the road with no knocks, clunks or rolling. Then again, what do I know?!

Congratulations to your step-son in joining us Grande Punto owners.

I'm sure it will give him many miles of trouble-free motoring, as long as it is serviced regularly.

Thanks Possum. You may want to avert your eyes from Stepson's attempts to "make it his own"...!

Looks like you guys got a good one there. Hope your stepson looks after it

Jim, could not see from the photos if it is fitted with Cruise Control.

Our 2008 Dynamic has it fitted whereas the later "povo pack" Puntos sold here did not. Maybe it was a marketing ploy to keep the price of the base model down.

No idea about cruise control, Possum; I wasn't looking for it and I doubt stepson will be interested. His ideas about what constitutes controlling a cruise and mine may well differ!

ETA: Parkers Guide suggests it was not standard fitment, so I think not.

Thanks Jim.

The control is a stalk below the indicator stalk on the left side of the steering column, if fitted.

Must admit that I very rarely use it myself, and the wife does not know how to use it. Is that because we are "old school" or just old?

Drove the Grande Punto home today, sharing the honours with the L-plate king. One very happy lad!

Only slight issue; we went out this afternoon and stopped off at Tesco. When Stepson went to start the car, we just got rapid clicking and blinking lights on the dash. We tried locking/unlocking the doors and tried again - still nothing.

Eventually, I bump started it and it has been fine since (Stepson stalled a few times, so plenty of practice restarting).

I suspect the starter motor. What do you reckon?

My Renault Laguna does the same if battery voltage dips below a certain level.

Battery is probably weak. It'll have been stood for a while at the dealers being locked, unlocked, started, stopped, all without getting a proper run to keep the battery topped.

I'd suggest checking the battery voltage with/without load, started/stopped to give you an idea of the charging system state. I'd guess though, it just needs a new battery

Fair point. Will a long drive not recharge it or will it have lost the ability to hold charge?

Looking through the service record, it has full, Fiat dealer history up to 51k, and has only done about 4K miles per year since 2012. It looks to have had the cam belt changed at 38000 miles in 2011, which seems very early (72k is recommended interval), though perhaps it was done on time rather than mileage?

Should I be advising Stepson to get it done again? If so, any owners know how difficult/costly it is? Until he learns the brutal wallet-crushing lesson of car ownership, I'm going to get the blame for anything that goes wrong!

May be a bad earth or a dodgy battery..

Cambelt - piece of mind says change it. I'm sure it'll only be a cheap job, 200 quid maybe.

It should help, but really once they go flat a few times they're not the same. You can charge them, and if the charger conditions also it can help top them up to full. It'd be worth looking at the battery voltage to get an idea if it's worth trying.

I'd also change the cam belt. Even though the car has done suspiciously low miles since it was last done.

Wife bought her Grande Punto 1.3 diesel 5 door Eleganza new in 2009. Over 100,000 miles now and all it has had are three drop links, rear shoes, a set of pads and just recently another set of pads with new discs. Still shocks me how reliable it has been. My son has just decided to take on the car and sell his 1.2 Fiesta so hopefully it will continue.

Regarding the cam belt. Some of the small engines hit and some don't. Not 100% sure but I think it's only the 8v engines that are non interference, so yes you should really get it done.

Just looked at belt changes in my Grande Punto service book, it says cambelt for petrol engines every 72k miles or 4 years if subject to heavy ueage( Cold climates, town driving, long idling stops) or every 5 years.

So a change is due any time now.

Not sure about the 16v engine, but when we did the cam belt change in our 8v, my mate, a Fiat trained mechanic, used the workshop's cam locking tool.

Thanks Possum, but I'm not sure what to do with that information!

Booked in for full cambelt/aux/tensioners/pulleys/water pump/uncle tom cobbley and all. £210 including VAT and labour. Not too bad. I'll buy a battery online - any recommendations?

My only worry now is that when I drove it today (after stepson has been driving it around seemingly endlessly since Saturday, with either me or MrsC in attendance), the clutch now bites about an inch of the floor and creates a certain friction-plate fragrance. I fear the worst. Oh well, that's car ownership...

It'll be dragging, hence the smell. I'll bet the slave calender is halfway dead.

Well, it doesn't seem to be dragging at all - or slipping, which is surprising. I don't have enough optimism to think it's only badly adjusted, but so far it's still - just - doing everything a clutch should do...

An inch off the floor it will be. It won't be disengaging fully between changes, hence the smell.

This. As well as dragging when hot.

Thanks gents. That seems fairly conclusive. No wonder the garage made it a "trade sale" because "the mileage was a bit high"!

OEM Valeo 3 part clutch kit was about £100 from Eurocarparts Jim.

Thanks, Pete. I might see if the garage can add the job on. Feel bad for the lad, but what can you do?

I'd just check the slave cylinder first. Might be a 30 quid diy fix.

Good plan, szkom. I'll ask the garage guy to check. In a way, I'd rather just get a new 3-part, but since the clutch itself seems to engage and disengage without (noticeable!) slip or drag, maybe it could just be the slave. The other consideration is the possible saving on labour if the car is already having the belts done.

Pete, did you do the dual mass too? we've just had a £600+ quote

No, it wasn't needed, basically it was just the release bearing had not been rotating and had worn down to nothing and almost worn through the diaphragm arms as a result.
Clutch plate was almost unworn.

Eurocarparts are currently doing Valeo clutch kits at £102 and dual mass flywheels for £191.

2 hours or so labour to change.

edit There is normally s discount deal all the time with them if you let them send you emails.

Thanks Pete, I've asked a very nice gentleman who frequents here, to give us a quote

MRS Junior is looking at getting a 2007 Grande Punto 1.2 as a car to learn on (all other cars here are autos) - apparently had belts done at 60k (it's at 70k now - will check how long ago), and it has a new MOT. Will check the usual things and front springs (though, presumably, MOT would have spotted them). Anything else?

1.2 is slow as hell, so slow that the dealership used to refer to their courtesy 1.2 as The Slug.

My 1.3 diesel Grande Punto has been pretty reliable over the nearly 9 years that I've had it. Apart from the front spring breaking, no doubt due to speed humps and potholed roads round here, the one problem was a clutch release bearing failing prematurely.

It didn't seem too bad even with a rather large seller in the passenger seat. The boy is only 17 so slow isn't too bad.

Just been to check it out and it seems OK.

Needs a driver's side window motor

Also only has one key - is that expensive to get a spare?

Generally seemed very honest and straight.

They come with 2 keys, one does everything. The 2nd, which is much simpler only unlocks the doors via the physical locks and works the ignition. PITA having to open the boot via the dashboard button for example if you have shopping as there is no external catch.

If you have the one with a flip out blade, then that is the expensive one. No idea how much though, fortunately I've never needed to find out.

If it's a five door with manual rear windows, make sure they go up and down. If you never use them the wire in the lift mechanism can subsequently break the first time you do.

My son's got a Slug Evo "MyLife" (My word, what a silly name) and it's slow yes, but ideal for learner/new drivers. Not had it long enough or driven it enough to need anything other than new wiper blades, a seat back adjustment knob and DRL bulb. Ours also came with only one key that was falling apart, bought a cheap new key "shell" and swapped everything over (needed a trim to fit properly). Replacement keys are very expensive (£200-300?) from Fiat. We have several cars with only one key, been thinking about adding key insurance to the policy and then making a claim some months later...

Cool - thanks - it has the "big" key - albeit rather shabby. Will get a spare simple one - just in case (my youngest has lost his smart phone, more shoes than seems possible and a pair of trousers recently...)

Well - just bought it - it seems very good.

Do shop around, MRS, as Stepson's example is pretty decent, though it has needed a few things doing at 60k (belts, wheel bearing on the way out).
His 1.4 Sporting costs £560 in insurance before he passes his test and roughly twice that once he goes solo, with Admiral. I just found out today that the Fox exhaust he bought (without even asking) will only cost an extra £22 per year, which I think is pretty good.
I really rate the Grande Punto after seeing the Fiestas/Corsas that his mates have...

There's not much shopping around in the Highlands, Jim. I think I've done OK. A replacement window motor is £30 (if that's what it turns out to be). The only other fault I can find is that the highest speed of the blower doesn't work. It idles so quietly that I thought it had stalled.

I know what you mean about lacking a market to shop in, after years in rural Brittany. Either way, I think it's a really good first car - especially compared with some of the competition.

Thought that also when we purchased our 1.4 Dynamic ("Poverty Pack") Grande Punto. Ours has "cruise control", whereas the later model ("Povo Pack") sold here did not; does yours have it?

Have had no issues with our's other than the usual cam belt replacement, battery, tyres and front pads.

This is the 1.2 Active 3D - can't quite imagine a more basic model (other than in white). But that's not really the point for a first car. 0-60 is quoted as 14s.

Yes, Active is the poverty spec in the UK, Dynamic is the midlevel trim here.

Seems I've also found the source of the missing fan speed. Common reported fault is the resistor connection burning. Have ordered a new resistor but the current one might clean up. Will do diagnosis on window later (if it ever stops raining). Will give it an oil and filter change later too.

Crappy connection at resistor and crappy connection at fan too. Italian electrics!

Over 100,000 on my wife's 2009 now and it's been faultless. My son now has the car so I hope it treats him well too.

Just got home last night from a lovely week in Brittany with MrsC, the stepsons and my daughters.

Back to reality...

Although aware that the battery was possibly not at its peak, stepson's limited finances mean I didn't insist he bought a new one for the Grande Punto after it let him down when he first bought the car. He and MrsC drove to Gloucester today - about 10 miles - with no problem. Rain meant plenty of wipers/fans/lights, etc and the car refused to start - or be bumped - after driving to Cirencester (30 mins from Gloucester, mostly dual carriageway).

I headed out and bought a replacement, fitted it and - as I suspected - the car started first time, with no hesitation.

However...

As we drove the mile back to the garage where I had bought the battery (the mechanic VERY kindly lent me the required sockets and spanners), the battery light came on.

I assumed a hitherto unrevealed alternator problem, which the garage guy agreed could be the problem.
On getting back in the car, which stepson had kept running, there was suddenly no power steering; I checked the fluid level and looked for leaks, but all appeared fine. I switched the car off, started it again and it worked fine, until I went to park 100 yards down the road at the supermarket. Again, zero assistance. Turned off and re-started the car again and back it came.

Went and did the weekly family shop and when I came out 30 minutes later, the battery light had gone off and the steering worked fine. But a warning light came on saying "check stop lights". This went off after braking a few times. The car made it home with no more drama and with no warning lights.

MrsC and stepson flattened the battery utterly while waiting for me to arrive - even the hazards weren't working. Could this cause the ECU to flip out and give all these warnings/temporary failures?

Should all be fine now it's had a few hours with a fully-juiced battery, or might it need more attention (new ECU...?).

What do people think?

Sounds like a typical duff earth. I assume the battery place were able to check the alternator output - what did they read? Yes low voltage gives errors like you've seen.

Re the power steering, I thought they were electric like the earlier models?

Yes the steering assistance is electric so if the battery is failing that will be one of the first things to go as the motor draws a high current.

Lights error again could be battery as it automatically checks power draw on various bulb circuits when they're in use to warn of a failed one.

Thanks for the responses; battery place simply sold me the battery, didn't look at the car at all. I fitted it where the car had stopped, so no check on the alternator.
The power steering and brake light check failures both happened AFTER the new battery was installed... Both now seem to have solved themselves, but I'm wondering why...

Loose battery negative lead, possibly at the gearbox. That'd be my first check.

I think this is a good shout - proved to be the case with my Coupe earlier this year, (discovered after I had purchased a new starter motor)!

Took the car for a drive yesterday and all was perfect - no warning lights at all. But, I'll get it checked out. I'm going to take it to the garage before stepson's 18th in a fortnight to have his coffee-can exhaust fitted and wheel bearings fixed as a present. My mechanic friend rolled his eyes when I told him about the battery issue and ranted about modern electronics.

It's something very simple that you can try at home. Quite literally you're checking that the battery leads are connected securely at the battery and car end. Look at the starter, alternator, battery, body, and gearbox connections. If you're feeling brave then check that the main fuses are all in good order. If you're still feeling enthusiastic you can take a multimeter to the battery and various points in the charge circuit to look for culprits.