My only hope out of this unholy mess is that it redefine how we look at things in this country.

Slightly bizarrely, it looks like the Tories will come out of this more united than Labour despite the Blue-on-Blue view before the debate. There seem even a vague possibility that Osborne could survive which seemed unthinkable on Friday morning.

I do think that people might be more critical of what the politicians say and realise that their vote might actually count. I think young people will become more aware too.

And, as above, it might raise the racism debate to something more meaningful.

Ive been called a 'whitey' by a racist in the past. (I decided he is a racist even though it was clearly an innocently placed 'in the moment' figure of speech relevant to banter at the time - this way I can claim tens of thousands of pounds in compensation for mental anguish).

Thankfully I havent been called a Limey, by an anti-nationalist, because I'm not sure how much I could claim for that one.


Only joking ... sticks and stones etc............ !!

Jeremy Hunt has just given his support to a second referendum.

Jeremy Hunt has just given his support to a second referendum.

Just a thought: there's a real possibility that we could have an outcome that maybe only a (small) minority wanted: out of EU (which nearly half of the country didn't want) and yet with free movement of people (which many of the Brexiteers didn't want). After all, there were no manifestos that have to be delivered with the vote.

^ Oi. I said it first

Interesting viewpoint YouTube Clip

Absolutely - credit where it's due. It just seems like it might be coming to pass now. In fact, a conspiracy theorist could say that you have players on both teams and you get the result you wanted either way. The Tories answer the "Europe" debate once and for all, the long-anticipated transfer of power from DC to his successor takes place, nothing much else changes and with the added bonus that Labour goes into complete self-destruct. Losing Scotland pretty much guarantees Tory rule in any case.

I've been saying for some time that the time is right for a new political movement that rejects the out-dated idea of left and right and embraces a new political dynamic (and reality) that involves the electorate and the political establishment on a more equal footing. Communications today are such that (with checks and balances) we and our representatives should be able to be more informed and responsive. That doesn't absolve government from taking major, complex decisions (like whether to leave the EU, for instance), but it should lead to better decisions by the electorate to get what they want and better guidance for politicians in delivering it.

Unfortunately, I'm a bit busy for the next year or so, but if anyone fancies giving it a go, I'd vote for you.

I also think the government have missed a massive trick here.

If we had isolated, say, the top 5 things that people liked/disliked about the EU then those main points could be linked with a decision to remain or leave. If you vote leave you don't get X, but vote remain and you get X but you also get Y.

The Remain campaign could have been based on going into the detail about those things which people liked and disliked about EU, stating perhaps we are bound by EU regulations but we are going to our hardest to make sure we get a better deal OR implement nationwide measures to invest more to mitigate that problem.
- An overburdened NHS due to increased migration? Sure, we will invest more in public services and limit benefits for health tourists etc..

The same thing could have been applied to the Leave campaign. We don't like this about the EU, so vote leave and we will do this instead.....

At the moment they just seem to be making it up as they go along.

What seems to have been missed is that referenda are simply advisory.

Governments are not obliged to act upon them.

Referendums are not legally binding, so legally the Government can ignore the results; for example, even if the result of a pre-legislative referendum were a majority of "No" for a proposed law, Parliament could pass it anyway, because parliament is sovereign.

I had this very discussion with a lad on facebook last night. To many people seem to think we are out already.

Not sure if that is a government issue or just people being uneducated

As I said before, I can't help thinking that persuading the 52% of the population that voted Leave - a great many of whom are passionate supporters - that the referendum was simply an exercise in consultation and that actually the result they thought they had won isn't going to be implemented, on a technicality (albeit a reasonable important one), will be a tricky business to say the least.

Listening to the graceless and boorish crowing of Farage in the European Parliament today, he clearly seems to think that we'll be bringing down the steel gates on Fortress Britain next week, which will come as a surprise to pretty much everyone involved in extricating the UK from the Gordian Knot that binds us into Europe - even after Article 50 is triggered.

To think that many people in Europe now see him as representing me is a source of profound sadness, even heartbreak.

Exactly, I have been refusing to watch news programmes on TV simply to avoid having images of that braying jackass thrust at me.

That's a bit mean, Pete. I know some very personable and quiet jackasses!

I totally agree Neil .
It looks like NF has got another Bank Holiday in store for you from this year onwards

Taken from todays' news page of the European Parliament :

Independence Day? Isn't that when the huge alien spaceships lay waste to capitol cities across the planet? Not sure I want that...

Why not St. Georges Day.

We should have a day off for that.

Good idea - he was from a non-EU country too.

Maybe the day should be 'Definitely not St George's Day as he'll come and steal all our jobs' day.

Yesterday I carried out a vote within a group I'm associated with. 112 votes, 82 leave, 30 remain, interesting result for one week on.

Maybe it's time we all start to pull together and make the result work for us all.

Politicians, governments and unions come and go, empires rise and fall. In the words of Shakespeare 'That island of England breeds very valiant creatures' and whatever may befall us in the uncertain days, months and years to come I'm confident that together we will persevere and build a better England; an England with a positive role to play on the ever changing world stage. An England to be proud of. If we all pull together we might be able to made the word "Great" mean something again.

Unless you tell us what the group was, it's not a very meaningful statistic...

Maybe it was at a BREXIT post referendum party?

Or a UKIP morning after party?

I'd love to know what the group is? The Jaguar forum was about 70% leave, no surprise there.

I deal with businessmen and women all day every day. I've only met a couple who wanted to leave. Clearly not indicative of the UK though is it. Going by Facebook, no-one voted to leave, but they're all keeping quiet which I can understand.

I'm CO of a group of reenactors, this group covers a wide age band from 18-80 from East to West, North to south covering many different careers.

But seemingly not many different views on leaving the UK. What were the figures before the referendum?

Never carried out any form of vote before as we try to avoid discussing politic and religion.

I carried out this vote for my own benefit as my group covers such a wide area, age band and occupations. This vote and the vote last week both surprised me.

I take your point. But all it proves is that either the members of your group just don't accurately reflect the national position or that there is another factor at work skewing the result.

Also depends how honest and self-assured the individuals were. After the event, needing to be on the winning side, one may also now say the opposite of what one actually voted?