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Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Jamiepm] #1663321
01/02/2023 17:55
01/02/2023 17:55
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Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
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Drakelow
I’m moving files as we speak, so hopefully people can see all of the photos

A few photos of the primed caliper

Cheers Jamie


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Jamiepm] #1663410
06/02/2023 11:52
06/02/2023 11:52
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,227
FCSS 01684 593187
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
Countrycruising  Offline
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FCSS 01684 593187
Can you post a pic showing how the brackets are oversize.

Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Jamiepm] #1663418
06/02/2023 13:56
06/02/2023 13:56
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Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
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Drakelow
HI Joe,
As per our chat the Ultra racing bar comes with loose brackets that should simply clamp around the bar. Whereas what is supplied are brackets with a far larger diameter meaning it would just rattle around.

So I'll make some shims up to remove the slack , so nothing disastrous, but not what you expect when you buy a complete kit

Cheers Jamie


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Jamiepm] #1663422
06/02/2023 15:48
06/02/2023 15:48
Joined: Sep 2006
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FCSS 01684 593187
Countrycruising Offline
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FCSS 01684 593187
Totally agree, for the home mechanic they'd be stuck installing this ARB so I'm sure your findings will be helpful for fold in the future thumb

Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Jamiepm] #1663437
06/02/2023 21:04
06/02/2023 21:04
Joined: Dec 2005
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Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
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Drakelow
A few pictures in the google drive to show how this arb will need packers to make it fit correctly

Cheers Jamie


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Jamiepm] #1663440
06/02/2023 23:19
06/02/2023 23:19
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,427
Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG Offline
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Je suis un Coupé

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Lightwater, Surrey
Hi Jamie, it's good to read about your progress, puts my efforts at a rear end refurb to shame frown

I'm curious about what paint you've used on the rear subframe. I've heard of "Chassis Black" being recommended, but there's quite a range of options, some that need primer, some that say don't use etch primer, some are satin, some are gloss. I tried spraying with an air compressor and the finish was quite rough, also it didn't stick too well (I didn’t use primer) so I might have to start again.

Any recommendations from anyone?


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
2008 Ferrari F430 & 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Jamiepm] #1663441
06/02/2023 23:21
06/02/2023 23:21
Joined: Dec 2005
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Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
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Drakelow
Hi Dave,
I’ve used hammerite smooth satin black, and honestly the finish is good. whilst I get by with my mechanical stuff I am no painter for sure

At the minute Halfords have it as bogof, so £5.50 a can

Cheers Jamie


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Jamiepm] #1663465
07/02/2023 20:10
07/02/2023 20:10
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,097
highlands
jimboy Offline
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highlands
280nm Jamie


I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: jimboy] #1663466
07/02/2023 20:18
07/02/2023 20:18
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 996
Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
Club member 1989
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Drakelow
Originally Posted by jimboy
280nm Jamie



Cheers Jim


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Jamiepm] #1663477
08/02/2023 00:31
08/02/2023 00:31

G
GrahamL
Unregistered
GrahamL
Unregistered
G



The rear bearings can't have done more than 1000 miles so surprised they needed fresh grease already.

When replacing the rear hub nuts you should use new nuts and be sure to tighten by pushing down on the torque wrench on both sides of the car (so standing on the opposite side of the wheel arch on each side of the car) to extend the suspension to max stop as you tighten. If you do it the other way you'll be tightening against the suspension spring and won't get the correct torque. Took me a while to work that out myself when I was doing it. smile

Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1663479
08/02/2023 12:51
08/02/2023 12:51
Joined: Dec 2005
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Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
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Jamiepm  Offline
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Enjoying the ride

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Drakelow
hi graham,
The reason for repacking them is that as I've had lots of stuff in bits, and I didn't want any cruddy rust bits in the grease. So was more precautionary than a need, and only took a few minutes each side as I knew that you'd only recently done them.

Regarding the tightening, you're right and it's a lesson I've learnt some years back wink

Cheers Jamie


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1663485
08/02/2023 17:43
08/02/2023 17:43
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,427
Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG Offline
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Je suis un Coupé

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,427
Lightwater, Surrey
Sorry guys I don’t understand the torque comment. When tightening the nut we're talking about the nut turning on the axle shaft, and it doesn't matter whether the drop arm is pushing against a spring, at the bottom of its travel or held in some other position, it's the position of the nut on the shaft that determines the torque needed to move it.


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
2008 Ferrari F430 & 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1663486
08/02/2023 18:22
08/02/2023 18:22
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,038
ation
szkom Online content
Club member 2000
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ation
I read it and it took a moment. Normally I'll block under the axle or such to stop the movement and allow me to lean into the bar to tighten. Never really gave torque values the consideration. But I suppose what we're talking about is the resolution of force I.e which direction your effort is applied. I suppose you could have a situation whereby the drag of the nut is such that the force applied is sufficient to compress the spring but not enough to provide the rotation of the nut thereby creating an under torque of the nut

And I'm liking the build! Gives me the kick I need to sort my car out

Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1663487
08/02/2023 18:32
08/02/2023 18:32

G
GrahamL
Unregistered
GrahamL
Unregistered
G



If you tighten the nut "upwards" then some of the force being exerted to turn the nut is lost in compressing the spring as you're not just turning the nut, you're also lifting the suspension arm and therefore compressing the spring at the same time and that takes some force as well. Therefore you'd need to apply more torque than the required number to get the nut tightened to the correct torque, Whereas if you tighten "downwards" and easily reach max travel of the suspension arm where it locks then all (or nearly all) the force is being exerted on the nut.

Then again I did fail my higher physics so maybe that's all nonsense. laugh To be fair it did feel very, very different tightening the hub nut "upwards" while also compressing the spring and tightening it "downwards" against the locked suspension arm. It took waaaaay more effort pulling upwards to get the torque wrench to click than it did pushing it downwards. So I got a new nut and re-did that side just to be sure it was OK and it definitely didn't feel like it had been on at the correct torque.

Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1663488
08/02/2023 18:53
08/02/2023 18:53
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 996
Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
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Jamiepm  Offline
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Enjoying the ride

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Drakelow
glad this is creating some good banter,and folks are enjoying the content, so I'll keep it coming

Cheers Jamie


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1663491
08/02/2023 20:08
08/02/2023 20:08
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,427
Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG Offline
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Je suis un Coupé

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Posts: 8,427
Lightwater, Surrey
Well I understand the argument, I guess I'm thinking more from the point of view of an "angle" torque wrench. I guess you might reach a point where 100Nm might be the reaction from the compressed spring and 180Nm on the nut and your wrench would click, yes I can see where you're coming from. Although I got an A for Physics A level, I was never too fussed about "mechanics" on my Uni Chem Eng course, and that was all 40+ years ago. It would make an interesting exam question though!


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
2008 Ferrari F430 & 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1663781
18/02/2023 17:39
18/02/2023 17:39
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,942
Auld Reekie
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Auld Reekie
Jamie, you are a machine laugh


BumbleBee carer smile
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1663783
18/02/2023 17:45
18/02/2023 17:45
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 996
Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
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Jamiepm  Offline
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Enjoying the ride

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Drakelow
There is method in my madness Simon laugh


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1663796
19/02/2023 23:09
19/02/2023 23:09
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 996
Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
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Drakelow
So as I’m getting close to the end of the restoration of C 20VT J (formerly R803 CGP), I thought I’d create a job list of things done, and things left to do!

Jobs done

Changed dipped,main and sidelight bulbs for led units from classiccarleds.co.uk, so hopefully night driving will be less dark laugh
Bought a Bluetooth headunit
Retreated the drivers seat leather and finish
Turbo charger overhauled with new shaft, 360 thrust a gap less piston ring and refitted love
Exhaust manifold cracks repaired and face skimmed flat, then refitted
Derusted and repainted the turbo heat shield
Derusted and repainted the radiator bottom support bracket
Derusted and repainted the cooling fan housing
Fitted a new bonnet release cable and bonnet release catch :max:
Removed and resealed the washer fluid tank, and broke the pump in the process grr
Realigned the bonnet release mechanism and black framework
Stripped,repainted yellow and refitted the strut brace smile
Derusted in general anything from a nut or bolt to various brackets/metalwork around the car, then treated with rust converter and painted with hammerite satin black spray paint
Removed the entire rear axle assembly, derusted and painted satin black all metalwork , then fitted new subframe bushes (FCSS supplied), stripped the trailing arms, same paint treatment and new bearings fitted, again supplied by Joe @ FCSS
Removed all brake pipes from floor pan to rear axle and replaced with new (MCS supplied) brake lines including all flexi pipes.
Removed and cleaned up the petrol tank including the metal straps
Removed old shocks,springs, bump stops and fitted the new Osrav/Eibach kit including new bump stops love
Removed old std anti roll bar and fitted the Ultra Racing 23mm version
Repacked the rear brake compensator valve with fresh grease
Removed front and rear wheel arch liners, and degreased, and have refitted the front one
Removed and fitted a new uprated oil cooler and pipework (MCS supplied)
Removed old front anti roll bar bushes and fitted strongflex PU bushes (you have to remove the front subframe to do these bushes)
Removed and painted both rear calipers
Removed and painted the front brembo caliper
Degreased and repacked with fresh grease both the rear wheel bearing assemblies
Degreased and stripped the floorpan including front and rear wheel arches, to treat any rust spots. °(Then treated with rust converter, acid etch primer and the resprayed with black Upol stone chip. High impact areas have been double dosed to be sure it is fully protected
Cleaned up/painted both front and rear drivers side Eiffel towers
Touched up the front cross member where any spots of rust were and painted as per factory colour
Refilled coolant system with fresh antifreeze
Changed the oil and filter

Jobs still to do……..

Stonechip seal the passenger side wheel arches
Complete front and rear calipers, meaning fitting new seals all round and fit to the hubs
Change out the last 4 pieces of brake lines including flexis, then bleed with ATE200 high temperature brake fluid ,drivers side brake pipe is apparently a bugger to do because of the route needed.
Refit the battery
Refit the entire exhaust system
Strip out and fit the front Osrav/Eibach assembly including new bearings,top mount and camber bolts
Fit the cooling fans
Refit the turbo heat shield
Refit the wheels
Get the wheel arches professionally painted after the clean up
Fit the Bluetooth headunit
Do the fuel pump wiring mod
Retreat remaining leather inside the car, as per the drivers seat
Cable for drivers seat is bust, and look’s fiddly to fix grr
Resecure the fuel filter and bracketry gubbins
Refit the heat shield stuff on the underside of the car
Refit the plastic rear valance assembly
refit the front bumper
Fit the new reg plate
Fit PFC Zrated brake pads to the front brembos
Refit the original rear brembo pads
Refit the undertray


Order a cambelt guard from Joe!!

Start the car and make sure nothing is leaking!

Take it for a tootle around the block, then if all good give a tank full of super unleaded

Book the car for tracking alignment and a once over on my mates ramps

Book a track session at Donington Park

Fit my FCCUK car sticker

And breathe!!!



I would say so far I’ve put roughly 120 hours of my time to get this far, and I’ve probably got got another 50 or 60 hours left. And I’ve enjoyed everything bar 2 jobs so far

The poxy M6 bolt for the coolant rail is just a twat to get at, irrespective of tools. I found it less painful to lower the drivers side engine mount and remove the tensioner to give a better access.

The rear wheel arch liners are a bitch to remove, so I’m expecting similar pain to refit


As ever the forum has been a great resource and many folks have helped either remind me of stuff I’d forgotten from my previous Coupé ownership or given me key bits of detail, so thanks for this.

I’ll keep the other thread updated with my jobs to do,so I hope people are enjoying either my hammering skills or my ropey videos with commentary.

As a reminder the google drive is updated with some pics and videos from this weekend’s efforts

Cheers Jamie wink





Last edited by Jamiepm; 20/02/2023 09:57. Reason: cambelt guard

She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1663798
20/02/2023 08:37
20/02/2023 08:37
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 31
WORCESTER
R
RichG Offline
Club member 1996
RichG  Offline
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Discoverer
R

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 31
WORCESTER
Good effort! smile

Last edited by RichG; 20/02/2023 08:37.
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1663799
20/02/2023 09:17
20/02/2023 09:17
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 996
Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
Club member 1989
Jamiepm  Offline
Club member 1989
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 996
Drakelow
thumb


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1663811
20/02/2023 21:24
20/02/2023 21:24
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 996
Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
Club member 1989
Jamiepm  Offline
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Enjoying the ride

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Drakelow
Aux guard ordered from Joe @FCSS tongue


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1664219
19/03/2023 17:49
19/03/2023 17:49
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 996
Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
Club member 1989
Jamiepm  Offline
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Drakelow
Folks ,just in case I'm doing something wrong regarding bleeding the rear brakes

Does it matter if the trailing arms are jacked up or not?

I've tried up and down and I can't get fluid to the calipers

Thanks Jamie


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1664220
19/03/2023 19:27
19/03/2023 19:27

G
GrahamL
Unregistered
GrahamL
Unregistered
G



Yes rear arms need jacked up as if the car is down with the rear wheels on the ground. If the rear arms are just hanging then it's like the car is under massive heavy braking and all weight is transferred to front wheels so there will be zero braking transferred to the rear through the compensator.

And that assumes the compensator spring is in place correctly and the arm is moving freely onto the compensator piston.

Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1664222
19/03/2023 19:35
19/03/2023 19:35
Joined: Dec 2005
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Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
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Jamiepm  Offline
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Enjoying the ride

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Drakelow
Hi graham,
When I had the whole rear assembly off, I had a quick look at the valve arrangement and visually looked ok

I’ve pb blasted it for today, so I’ll have another go after work tomorrow night

With the new arb you get a new bracket for the spring to latch onto. From memory the spring was sloppy beforehand, so I’ve tried to mirror that set up when I’ve reassembled it

What I’ll try is put the wheels on and put the car on wheel ramps to try and simulate being on the ground, maybe it’s the spring doesn’t have enough tension?

Cheers Jamie


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Edinburgh] #1664223
19/03/2023 20:02
19/03/2023 20:02
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,038
ation
szkom Online content
Club member 2000
szkom  Online Content
Club member 2000
Forum is my life

Joined: Sep 2009
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ation
I once had an issue with an airlock in my rears and I just couldn't get the fluid to the back end after I had the axle off. It didn't want to shift and I'd made sure the proportioning valve was fully open etc.. In the end I put one of the cheap hand held vacuum pumps on the line and it came. Never tried with a pressure bleed kit though.

Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Jamiepm] #1664224
19/03/2023 20:49
19/03/2023 20:49
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped Offline
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Good luck. I had trouble with bleeding the rears. Ended up replacing the compensator valve twice. Must have had a dud.

Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: szkom] #1664225
19/03/2023 20:56
19/03/2023 20:56
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 996
Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
Club member 1989
Jamiepm  Offline
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Enjoying the ride

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Posts: 996
Drakelow
Originally Posted by szkom
I once had an issue with an airlock in my rears and I just couldn't get the fluid to the back end after I had the axle off. It didn't want to shift and I'd made sure the proportioning valve was fully open etc.. In the end I put one of the cheap hand held vacuum pumps on the line and it came. Never tried with a pressure bleed kit though.



I’ll have a look tomorrow,thanks


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Gripped] #1664226
19/03/2023 21:52
19/03/2023 21:52
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 996
Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
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Jamiepm  Offline
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Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
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Drakelow
Originally Posted by Gripped
Good luck. I had trouble with bleeding the rears. Ended up replacing the compensator valve twice. Must have had a dud.





I’m going to try and unseize the unit worse case

Cheers Jamie


She's alive!
Re: R803CGP / C20VTJ restoration thread - Discussion [Re: Jamiepm] #1664227
19/03/2023 22:15
19/03/2023 22:15
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 996
Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
Club member 1989
Jamiepm  Offline
Club member 1989
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 996
Drakelow
Jobs done

Stonechip seal the passenger side wheel arches
Complete front and rear calipers, meaning fitting new seals all round and fit to the hubs
Change out the last 4 pieces of brake lines including flexis, then bleed with ATE200 high temperature brake fluid ,drivers side brake pipe is apparently a bugger to do because of the route needed.
Refit the battery
Refit the entire exhaust system
Strip out and fit the front Osrav/Eibach assembly including new bearings,top mount and camber bolts
Fit the cooling fans
Refitted the turbo heat shield
Refitted the 2 front wheels
Replaced the fuel filter and bracketry gubbins
Refitted the heat shield stuff on the underside of the car
Refitted the plastic rear valance assembly
refitted the front bumper
Fitted the PFC Zrated brake pads to the front brembos
Refit the original rear brembo pads
Fitted the cambelt guard from Joe!!

Started the car and make sure nothing is leaking! All appears good

[/quote]

Jobs still to do…

Get brake fluid to the rear calipers
Refit the battery tray
Refit the rear wheels
Get the wheel arches professionally painted after the clean up
Fit the Bluetooth headunit
Do the fuel pump wiring mod
Retreat remaining leather inside the car, as per the drivers seat
Cable for drivers seat is bust, and look’s fiddly to fix
Fit the new reg plate
Refit the undertray

Take it for a tootle around the block, then if all good give a tank full of super unleaded

Book the car for tracking alignment and a once over on my mates ramps

Book a track session at Donington Park

Fit my FCCUK car sticker

And breathe!!!



I would say so far I’ve put roughly 130 hours of my time to get this far, and I’ve probably got got another 30 or so hours left. And I’ve enjoyed everything bar 2 jobs so far

The poxy M6 bolt for the coolant rail is just a twat to get at, irrespective of tools. I found it less painful to lower the drivers side engine mount and remove the tensioner to give a better access.

The rear wheel arch liners are a bitch to remove, however quite easy to refit


As ever the forum has been a great resource and many folks have helped either remind me of stuff I’d forgotten from my previous Coupé ownership or given me key bits of detail, so thanks for this.

I’ll keep the other thread updated with my jobs to do,so I hope people are enjoying either my hammering skills or my ropey videos with commentary.

As a reminder the google drive is updated with some pics and videos from this weekend’s efforts

Cheers Jamie wink




[/quote]


She's alive!
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