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Jan 14th, 2020
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How much BHP Can you get
#20307
08/01/2006 02:17
08/01/2006 02:17
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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So its a front wheel drive car,
Standard it spins in first and the traction control stops it in all the other gears,
then you chip it and it spins in a few more gears,
So otherwise you make a 4WD,
How much power can you get from a 20v turbo without loosing to much power from wheel spinning??
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20309
08/01/2006 02:28
08/01/2006 02:28
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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375 what have you done? and doesen't it torque steer?
you must go through a set of tyres ever month
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20310
08/01/2006 02:52
08/01/2006 02:52
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 35
whitehaven
Bunflash
Discoverer
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Discoverer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 35
whitehaven
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bennb229, its all about power delivery or more to the point how you put the torque down. mine spins like mad with agressive spool at 270ish but others on here run 330bhp quite happily with a boost controller. Suspension setup, tires and of course the weather can make a difference  This time of year is a massive pain for take off. However i'm about to go through a bit of a suspension upgrade to help sort it out. The coup shouldn't really torque steer at all upto 300 brake (source jimbo ). Again after that its all about delivery. Barbz runs 400 brake and its very driveable so ive been told.
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20312
08/01/2006 06:03
08/01/2006 06:03
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
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Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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Quote:
I`ve got about 375bhp....great fun  
Paul you really need to get down a RR and find out what she is putting out. If you want to get anywhere near 375bhp then you will have to run the 28R to within an inch of it's life with some serious boost 
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20313
08/01/2006 06:35
08/01/2006 06:35
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
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no toooo serious ..............`just` 1.6 bar .........I honestly, actually couldn`t tell you the exact bhp,but seriously thinking about getting a unichip with Rog`s PTS group buy....been meaning to for ages,so the group buy has just spurned me on (not much fun in the winter,well actually with the really cold weather it can be kinda by how fast it feels)so will be getting the 3" elbow and Integrale Injectors fitted before it gets mapped,it will be interesting to find out the real figures before and after a re map.
was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not 
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20314
08/01/2006 07:31
08/01/2006 07:31
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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can you remind me of your mods plz Paul
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20315
08/01/2006 22:13
08/01/2006 22:13
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,620
S Wales
chrissy
Tourque Italia member!
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Tourque Italia member!
Forum is my job
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Posts: 3,620
S Wales
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20316
08/01/2006 22:16
08/01/2006 22:16
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,620
S Wales
chrissy
Tourque Italia member!
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Tourque Italia member!
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Posts: 3,620
S Wales
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Quote:
Barbz runs 400 brake and its very driveable so ive been told.
Hes got custom designed lower strut braces stabilising the lower suspension to an emmence degree, this helps him put the big power down,
And the BIG Porsche brakes help him to stop too!
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20317
08/01/2006 22:20
08/01/2006 22:20
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,728
N.E Scotland
mattB
Club member 6
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Club member 6
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,728
N.E Scotland
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Nigel has a lower strut brace too, at the front.
I think he made it himself.
Death-rattle-tastic
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20318
08/01/2006 22:43
08/01/2006 22:43
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Quote:
I`ve got about 375bhp....great fun
If you want to get anywhere near 375bhp then you will have to run the 28R to within an inch of it's life with some serious boost
Not bein cheeky, but say u had standard turbo and u got some SERIOUS headwork done to your car. Done the exhaust, tuning chip and intercooler mods. Does that mean ur never gonna break 270 cause of ur turbo? I dont think that can be right because with those mods u are making the engine work harder. So paul could technically get 375 from a gt28r because he's making the engine work harder aswell as running scarily high boost
Ross
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20320
09/01/2006 02:08
09/01/2006 02:08
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
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Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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Rog now has a hybrid and is putting out 320bhp with some good headwork although he did break the 300bhp barrier with the standard turbo. Ross, you cheeky bugger The turbo is the single most important ancillary as it is this that creates the ultimate power. If you remove the turbo then you have a NA car which develops less power due to the lower compression. Headwork on any car will allow for greater output but think of it as maximising the efficiency of the engine. Forced induction uses the simple principle of more air with more fuel equals a bigger bang  The more pressure you run means more air is being forced in so as long as you can keep the fuel in line you have bigger power. A small turbo requires little exhaust gas to spin the turbine and increase the air pressure but the efficiency is limited to a sustained pressure at lower boost and rpms. A bigger turbo can flow more air but requires more exhaust gas therefore the lag is incremental however higher boost is sustained at greater rpm with less heat meaning bigger power. The 28R is not a particularly big turbo but it is efficient up to 1.4 bar dropping to about 1.1 bar near redline. The approximate rating is around 300-320bhp but with the right setup you can squeeze a little more. In order to achieve 375bhp you would need to develop around 305 lbs/ft @ 6500rpm which is asking a fair bit given the turbo's efficiency. The 28R is not designed for big power but quicker spool and good midrange grunt. The only way to get big power with smaller/equal turbos is to increase the CC hence the 2.4 giving an extra 100 bhp over my coop
![[Linked Image]](http://www.fcperformance.co.uk/fcp-fb.jpg)
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20321
09/01/2006 02:11
09/01/2006 02:11
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Is it possible to use turbos? One smaller one which would kick in early on in the revs and then drop off, and another larger turbo which would kick in just as the other turbo is about to drop off?
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20322
09/01/2006 03:49
09/01/2006 03:49
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Rog now has a hybrid and is putting out 320bhp with some good headwork although he did break the 300bhp barrier with the standard turbo.
Ross, you cheeky bugger The turbo is the single most important ancillary as it is this that creates the ultimate power. If you remove the turbo then you have a NA car which develops less power due to the lower compression. Headwork on any car will allow for greater output but think of it as maximising the efficiency of the engine.
Forced induction uses the simple principle of more air with more fuel equals a bigger bang The more pressure you run means more air is being forced in so as long as you can keep the fuel in line you have bigger power. A small turbo requires little exhaust gas to spin the turbine and increase the air pressure but the efficiency is limited to a sustained pressure at lower boost and rpms. A bigger turbo can flow more air but requires more exhaust gas therefore the lag is incremental however higher boost is sustained at greater rpm with less heat meaning bigger power.
The 28R is not a particularly big turbo but it is efficient up to 1.4 bar dropping to about 1.1 bar near redline. The approximate rating is around 300-320bhp but with the right setup you can squeeze a little more. In order to achieve 375bhp you would need to develop around 305 lbs/ft @ 6500rpm which is asking a fair bit given the turbo's efficiency. The 28R is not designed for big power but quicker spool and good midrange grunt. The only way to get big power with smaller/equal turbos is to increase the CC hence the 2.4 giving an extra 100 bhp over my coop
See thats my thinkin tho. 375 does seem high but to be honest, after talkin to barbz, pauls coupe aint got much fiat left under the bonnet! Anyways, i have the gt28r aswell, but im thinkin about headwork next and was talkin to barbz and he was talkin about his brothers car which got 344 with headwork on nearly the same setup as mines! So headwork can make a huge difference. As has been said paul needs to get his on the RR to get it checked but anyone whos been in his says its extremely quick. I took graham out in mines when it was 264bhp and he was impressed but said it wasnt a patch on pauls beast!
Ross
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20323
09/01/2006 04:03
09/01/2006 04:03
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Is it possible to use turbos? One smaller one which would kick in early on in the revs and then drop off, and another larger turbo which would kick in just as the other turbo is about to drop off?
Yep, sounds like the Porsche 959's sequential turbos!
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20324
09/01/2006 04:29
09/01/2006 04:29
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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And the Mazda RX-7 twin turbo!
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20326
09/01/2006 04:32
09/01/2006 04:32
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20327
09/01/2006 04:33
09/01/2006 04:33
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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so.....could it be done with the coop?
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20328
09/01/2006 04:45
09/01/2006 04:45
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Nothing is impossible.. But there's not much space to put the second turbo, is it?
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20329
09/01/2006 04:59
09/01/2006 04:59
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I dunno i've got a 16v so i have a bit more room, move the battery to the back would make a bit more room, i'm sure u could if u thought about.
Not that i would. Even if i could afford it.
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20330
09/01/2006 05:00
09/01/2006 05:00
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Supra 3.0 tt aswell!
Ross
Dont forget the supra's little brother the MR2 twin turbo, but these were very rare.
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20331
09/01/2006 05:10
09/01/2006 05:10
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Not bein cheeky, but say u had standard turbo and u got some SERIOUS headwork done to your car. Done the exhaust, tuning chip and intercooler mods. Does that mean ur never gonna break 270 cause of ur turbo? I dont think that can be right because with those mods u are making the engine work harder. So paul could technically get 375 from a gt28r because he's making the engine work harder aswell as running scarily high boost
eh? what are you talking about, a turbo will only flow a certain amount of air, regardless of what is connected to. Head work will improve the volumetric efficiency which relate directly to torque, but it cant expand the air flow capabilities of the std turbo.
rich
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20332
09/01/2006 05:27
09/01/2006 05:27
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Yes.
But what im saying is that u can make the most of the air flowing through. As pointed out by someone else rog hit 310 with standard turbo. So with the proper headwork u can achieve more power the turbo might be rated for!
Ross
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20334
09/01/2006 05:38
09/01/2006 05:38
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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See... still more than the 270 recommended!
Ross
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20335
09/01/2006 05:55
09/01/2006 05:55
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Quote:
this was with headwork, FMIC, and blitz at 1.24 bar, standard turbo.
What FMIC did you have Rog? Pace of Evo?
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Re: How much BHP Can you get
#20336
09/01/2006 06:37
09/01/2006 06:37
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Yes.
But what im saying is that u can make the most of the air flowing through. As pointed out by someone else rog hit 310 with standard turbo. So with the proper headwork u can achieve more power the turbo might be rated for!
Ross
ross, just to help you. turbos arent rated in BHP, infact no components should be rated in bHP. Turbos are rated for air flow at a certain presure ratio, NOT for a BHP. The benefit is, as I said in the improving the volumetric efficiency; that is the ability to fill the cylinders to the maximum on the inlet phase. Its usefulness of the improved cylinder filling. Just for you knowledge say you have a 20mm orifice in the inlet, the turbo would produce say 1 bar no problem as it pressurizes the the space between the compressor and the restrictor, but the cylinders would have very poor filling as after the apature there would be nuch lower boost. So potentially the inlet ports are like the apature. But its is not as simple as opening them up, there is a science to that itself. So yes the std turbo flow verus pressure ratio can be maximised (or minimise flow losses) by having the head developed fully. No one has done this, I've heard of not flow tests, infact thats a shame as I would like to compare it to other heads I have figures for.
rich
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