Right, just getting ready to soon have the coop in for some surgery & have just remembered the fcukkin mess that is ALWAYS created when carrying out an oil filter change, you know, it goes all over the place, drips for a day or so & usually requires about 30 kitchen wipes to clean up the undertray & the oil filter location housing near the block.

Having had a look at where the horns fit, I reckon ( there is enough room to vertically fit a remote filter & run either a set of pipes from a take off plate ( where the original filter lives )

OR, cut into one of the oil cooler pipes & simply fit 2 90 deg elbows such that the flow HAS to go to the filter

I've e-mailed think auto with a list of bits * want & asked for pirces, but 2 days later heard fcuk all, so I guess I'll have to call the knobs

question is, is this possible, as It just looks logical & will make life so easier to change the filter ( plus I can fit a larger one ! ).

Only question is which is the cooler side ( hose to cut on the cooler ? the most drivers side one ? or the left hand one, when looking at the engine ? ).

The only problem with the second idea is that I would have to totally blank off the OEM oil filter housing with a straight forward return, but nobody makes a thing like this, unless I but a take off plate & simply make a piece of pipe up as a loop return

opinions ?

PS : the actual cost doesn't look big.....maybe £100 ?

Taz

I was under the impression that the oil only flowed to the oil cooler once it reaches a certain temperature, that it has a thermostat somewhere in the engine.

I would have thought that would prohibit putting the filter on the cooler pipes if that is true.

I've thought about this many a time. Some nice shiny pipes leading from the old location to the left of the engine bay.

Reckon you'd need a take off so that the pipes come out at 180deg to normal filter (straight out), as I don't think anything coming out at 90 deg will fit in the space.

Other places you could try -
www.speedflow.co.uk or Flexolite

Group buy, group buy!...
Chris

You could fit a remote filter adaptor but it would have to bolt on to where the original filter mounts, this way you keep the oil take off for the oil cooler.
Is there enough room where the filter mounts to fit the remote adaptor and pipe work for the remote filter.

You will need one of these remote take offs then one of these remote filter heads and a couple of lengths of hose.

Dead simple Taz, so long as you can route the pipes out of the original filter housing ok

Oh and as for prices, those two parts are from Demon-tweeks motorsport, priced at £15 + VAT each so you could do the conversion for well under £100

I don't think that the coupe's oil-cooler has a thermostat.

taz - surely you are an expert at removing the undertray now?

nobody uses the inspection cover do they? if your undertray is in good condtion with bolts that actually undo you can remove it in 1 minute.

that way you can give the car a realy good clean when doing an oil and filter change.

and no the coupe doesnt have a thermostat for the oil cooler, its always travelling through it.

Well,

all bits now ordered as a kit form. with the exception of the bracket to fit the remote filet, it should ALL fit first time. Have even gone for pre-swaged connections & a braided loop pipe for the takeoff plate, which will be used as a simple blanking plate return. Thus I only have to identify the correct flow path via the oil cooler & it's all done

went a bit overboard, but all in £95 inc VAT / delivery.

Taz

Taz, if your taking the tap off the original mounting then the oil flows out of the outside pipe and back into the centre (if thats what you mean ?)

Will this effect oil temps and pressure with the extra length pipes and new location of the filter, its going to be a cooler location for the filter instead of being in the roasty toasty heat of the engine bay.

Looking forward to seeing the result though.

Jimbo, yep, what think auto are doing for me is taking a standard TOP S1 takeoff plate with the 2 axial tappings & linking them togehter ( effectively meaning that NO OIL filter is used in this location ever again )

then at the oil cooler end, I simply cut either the feed / return hose & splice in the new remote oil filter assembly.

the ONLY extra hose is actually form where you cut the oil cooler hose ( by the rhs wheel arch area ) to allow the hose to be routed up ( about 1/2" each way ) to where the horns lie

I will look into a flow schematic, as I will replicate how the OEM stuff is...

eg : oil comes out of block, through filter, then to cooler, then back to block ( for example ).

quite a simple mod, hopefully, it will mean never having to make a mess of the area near to the belts / oil drips etc....which eventually foul the rear of the engine etc

you know how I am am with keeping the lot clean. Also, it'll mean that only the sump plug needs undoing & the filter simply accessed by the horn area

just waiting for the bits to arrive. I did mention to think that if this works, they will then offer it to all as a proprietary kit ( their man Nick seemed VERY VERY interested ).

should bloody well be ! I am doing the R&D for him !

Taza

Taz, if you want, i have a couple of braided hoses doing nowt in the garage. There were for my engine, but the connections would put on the wrong way so usless for my engine / oil cooler, but might be of some use to yourself? It has the connectors on them too and flexiable to a certain degree

Fcuk, double fcuk !

just checked the parts CD & it refers to the existing take off plate for the oil cooler as a "thermostatic valve"

this means I can't link out the oil filter, as if it's installed as I planned, then it will only filter oil when it gets hot enough

bollox.

Beggers, I may PM you for the additional hose, as all is not lost, just means I have to run 2 extra hoses......here was me thinking it was THAT simple

Just ermove the stat from the housing then Taz. simple solution an rig up some form of flick panel infront of the cooler to block it off when just started or on long runs ie motorway jaunts and the like.

Its something i looked into a while ago using just a take off plate that was outward facing and then braided pipe from there to the horn area with the filter base facing upwards to help with oil retention and prevent back flow as well back to the block.
Did they consider the above method? the hardest part would be ensuring the take off plate could be tightened one enough but i reckon the could weld on a nut say 15mm onto the centre of the plate to allow a good tight fitment on and then how about snap on sleeve braided hose for simple click on fitment?

just rember to think about the angle you mount the remote filter at. if you mount it so the filter screws down it will dump the oil when yuo undo it so try to mount the filter underneath then you will only get the drips out the pipe.

it will onlt be fitted "hanging" down as recommended. This minimises oil drain back, as the filter bowl will always be full.

just waiting for a donor sandwich plate to arrive tomorrow to finalise my design, then it'll be fitted next week.

the kit should hopefully be availalbe via think auto shortly thereafter ( a gift to the forum tecchies, who hate accessing the OEM oil filter ).

cheers

Taz

cheers Rich

there are 2 simple ways out of this.....i have got it covered......

simply fit a TOP plate to the OEM sandwich plate as is & run 2 hoses to a remote spin off filter...or....

use the OEM solid pipes & at the oil cooler end, fit the spin off filter & another sandwhich therostatic plate to allow the oil to flow to the filter all the time & block off the cooler when it's too cold.

PS : in the latter, the OEM take off would have the thermostat removed permanently..........


trust me, it'll be fine, I'm not about to wreck a 2.4 - 2.5l engine

cheers

Taz

ok bro, sounds like a plan, i'd go with the sandwich RFH and leave the cooler circuit as is. The hoses take a bit of space and there isnt much to be had.

What unions will you use, I doubt you'll know exactly what you nedd until you have it all in rough position, the easiest considering you want it to look flash would be ally fir tree unions with nitrile push on hose, over braid, and end finishers. Fidly but easy, FC333 hose and reusable fitting are a pig to assemble, if you use these cut these with an angle grinder and clean them out after with water. Wrap the braid cuts with tapes before cutting. But assembly is a pig, I only had to do one, ok slightly hindered by being under my car but still annoying how the braid doesn't easily go into the socket. have fun.

rich

Rich,

cheers again for your help. If you have any pics they will be of mega use.

Oddly enuf, a good friend is making the pilgrimage to Kent today to see me

So we'll have a quick chat about this issue, as I really WANT this to work in a professional manner, as if I can offer this kit to ALL coop owners, it wil make life so much easier to do oil changes & of course minimise mess. Not a performance mod, but IT DOES allow more room for manifold / turob development, as you free up a lot of room down in that part of the bay

well, that's my bullshite excuse

sounding good Taz,thought you where more into R&B than R&D, buy He !! sounds as tho` this 2.4 has got your brain working overtime,with good results ,hope it all goes well

Decide which fitting you want taz, and what type of hose as I'm sure cosmetics are high on you list. For any subsequent 'kit' I would look to socketless push on hose as people always seem to be looking to the cheapest way of doing things, as opposed to what may be best.

Its easy to change hose types, the RFH has female 1/2bsp threads, you then use male/male adaptors on the ends to adapt to male BSP,UNF or JIC (-x). If you want the blue and red anodised fittings then you will look at JIC sizing, never used forged fittings they have a large pressure drop, always use swept - yes they cost more. For the JIC red/blue's then you are looking at using FC333 steel braided if you want it to look nice, or the Aeroquip startlite hose (not a steel braid), you will still need a range of fittings for the first hose attempt.

Personally I would avoid steel braids in a tight area they are like grinders and will rub through anything if not secured or spaced.

So, for your initial try buy a few meters of 1525 aeroquip or AQP hose (comes in blue - see my engine I use it on the breathers, the black is the 1525) and a good range of moquip steel fittings, this way you can construct the set up easily (so easy to use this hose). When you know it all works then you can re-construct in fancy looking hose as you like. I'd then sell the original set up. The half way hose is use of 1525 or AQP with JIC fir tree push on unions these are the familiar red/blue ally fittings.

Also you would be silly not to take this oppotunity to use the RFH with fittings for pressure/temp to a capilary gauge this is far more accurate then the std fiat rubbish.

RFH with 3/8 temp sender to racetech gauge. fitted with 1/2 bsp male male adaptors - always use swivels as they dont twist the hose.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/sediciRich/IMG_0382.jpg
FC333 -6 hose for fuel, silly money.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/sediciRich/cannon01025.jpg
OT2 with 45 and 90 1/2 bsp fittings OTs can come with a range of male threads. Hose is 1525 push on 'furry'
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/sediciRich/IMG_0416.jpg
AQP hose on breather 2/4 to 1/2 1525, adaptors by our very own begbie
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/sediciRich/IMG_0545.jpg -all push on hose works the same.
TOP01 A, fitted with 1/2 bsp male males, center bolt is 3/4 UNF, the switch on the hosing is a oil pressure switch, under the housing is oil pressure 1/8 fitting
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/sediciRich/IMG_0175.jpg

now you're bored I can tell

rich

Rich,
Cheers bud, have now almost sorted out the piping layout ( well almost in my head ! took a while to work out the nightmare route the oil has to go through )

Basically the OEM takeoff plate ( where you'd normally fit the bugger of an oil filter ) creates a static "leg" of dead oil flow in the cooler circuit when the engine is off / cold , basically inside the takeoff plate, the thermostat ( and a shite one at that !!! ) allows the oil to bypass the cooler circuit & return to the oil filter, then back to the block ( the pressure differential between the output from the pump & the feed return sees to this ) All that happens is that the cooler circuit is full of oil, but is not allowed to return to the filter.

However, for this to work as FIAT intended : That is to say the filter sees oil when cold & lastly when HOT , I will fit a RFH left entry head which will have a NEW thermostatic sandwich plate bolted underneath it. The filter then hangs below this lot

The sandwich plate will connect to the engine side of the severed oil cooler hoses ( keeping the flow in the correct orientation )

The FIAT OEM oil cooler hoses ( basically they will be severed at the point where the flexy rubber is, by the horn area )

The 2 final takeoffs from the new remote oil filter head, will then be connected to the oil cooler remains. Thus it should all work

Thinking out loud, I am not sure if it will make a difference if the supply from the engine matters if it's connected to the new spin off filter head, or the sandwich plate

but the original concept uses :

BLOCK - SANDWICH PLATE - FILTER.

I now have :

BLOCK - NEW SANDWICH PLATE - REMOTE FILTER.

I have also taken apart the OEM sandwich plate & noted to my horrow that this old one supplied to me was seized fully open, thus it would have been cooling the oil ALL the time. If anymoby does a engine rebuild, get a NEW one of these. This will lead to sludging of oil & possible prematue wear during cold starts

I've worked out how to permanently blank off the OEM so that it just a separated oil supply / return using the original bits

A how to may be avail soon, when my bits arrive.


oh & i bet you are wondering why on earth I just don't run 2 new hoses from the back of my blanking plate ( where the original filter used to be ??? )...

very simple, using the more complicated method above, I halk the amount of hose if not use only a 1/3, plus I don't have to run any pipes from the block to the cooler. All new connections are at the cooler end, which is a lot easier to do, when you are on your back under the damn car !

cheers

Taz

ok i think i will at least need pictures as my brain is fried today

Taz without looking I cant be sure, but the oilstats dont operate like a thermostat, they dont have a definite open and closed, more a path of least resistance. Thus my OT2 always looks open, its a case of more open when hot. Still not entirely understanding why you dont just have a sandwich plate 2 lines to the RFH, one send an return. All oil goes via the filter before the engine regardless whether its been through the cooler or not. Have you a pic of the 20vt oil filter location been a long time since I looked at this unit.

cheers

Rich

See what you are getting at mate. I will post a pic of the OEM take off plate to the cooler.

This will in effect be now defunct, but I can't be arsed to chop up the cooler pipes at the engine end.....too much work.

hence, at the remote position, the rfh will take the feeds from the oil cooler pipework, then below the rfh will a new thermostatic snadwich plate, with the pipework from these going to the existing oil cooler.

thus, when the engine is cold, all oil goes to the filter, then as it hots up, it goes to the cooler also, then back to the block.

I was quite suprised to see how badly seized up the donor OEM thermostat was. I have taken it apart & noted that in this design, when fully open it does separate the feed & return such that ALL hot oil goes through the cooler, then the filter.

I will replicate this in the new install.

But I'm bettting my bottom dollar, some coops out there, eg : Which have had water in oil / crappy oil, will be running with OPEN thermostats

no good during cold startup, prob also why the engines take longer to warm up

that in addition to the crap aftermarket water thermostats ! I'm going back to OEM, as my recent one, has already got stuck !!

good job, I'm having a rebuild

Ah I see now taz!! Yes that sounds reasonable. If I were you id have the RFH smoothed and polished they have a real rough sand cast finish.

Keep us all posted.

rich

hmm........just spent a few hours taking apart the coop ( adjacent to the horns etc )

if I were to butcher the OEM filter holder, the work involved is quite a task ( certainly nothing that most on here would be interested in ), as oil cooler pipes, turbo heatshield and a few other bits need removing to do my task , then you have to mod the filter holder

Now doing this is not a major issue as my engine is being rebuilt, but looking closer at the setup, I feel that in order to reduce the piping, I will have ended up with a real contorted route of 90 deg bends, sandwich plates, takeoff plates & adapters ( all not good for oil flow ).

So, instead, I'll try simply running 2 hoses from the back of the oil filter holder to where I will fit my new filter - I just need to be wise with the route,

oh, having had a chopping session with the OEM horn bracket, there is enough room to comfortably fit an oil filter in this place & right behind the o/s headlight

....just got to get my rough bracket made up in heavy gauge stainless

fcukking coop