Fiat Coupe Forum
- Founded by Kayjey & James Northam
- Funded by the Club for the benefit of all owners
Fiat Coupe Club UK
join the club
Fiat Coupe Forum
 
» Announced
    Posting images


» Related sites
    Main club site
    fiatcoupe.net


» External data
    owners listed
 
Who's Online Now
2 registered members (Banksy, Edinburgh), 194 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums69
Topics113,576
Posts1,340,886
Members1,797
Most Online731
Jan 14th, 2020
Top Posters(All Time)
barnacle 33,545
stan 32,122
Theresa 23,299
PeteP 21,510
bockers 21,071
JimO 17,917
Nigel 17,367
Edinburgh 16,741
RSS Feeds
Club Events
Club Information
Track Events
Rolling Road/RWYB
Social Events
Non-UK Events
Coupé Related Chat
Coupé Spotting
Coupé News/Press
Buying/Selling Advice
Insuring a Coupé
Basic FAQ's
How to Guides
Forum Issues
Technical Problems
General Maintenance
Styling
Tuning
Handling
ICE and Alarm
Coupés for Sale
Coupés Wanted
Parts for Sale
Parts Wanted
Group Buys
Business Forum
Other Vehicles for Sale/Wanted
Other Items for Sale/Wanted
Haggling/Offers
Ebay links
Other Cars
Other Websites
General Chat
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Perfect touch live map results #262197
21/12/2006 01:36
21/12/2006 01:36

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



id be happy with 300-320 and ive got the gtir so im imagining there shouldent be a problem! my main concern is reliablility,as i want that power but reliable! as best can be!!

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262198
21/12/2006 01:46
21/12/2006 01:46

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Quote:

Im more than happy with 300,so anything else is a bonus.




Looking at other Superspool results, I think there's scope to get that wallop of torque a little earler. What boost were you running and what fuel were you using?

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262199
21/12/2006 04:04
21/12/2006 04:04

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Quote:

Looking at other Superspool results, I think there's scope to get that wallop of torque a little earler. What boost were you running and what fuel were you using?



I was running 99ron,and the boost we had a problem with the avcr setup but with the days events we didnt have time to mess about with it.We used a bleed valve and ran at 1.35bar.The initial poor torque curve will be much improved when the controller is sorted.The ebv,s are very good at controlling the wastegate to get this initial torque where as a bleed valve just holds it constant and this is apparent on the graph.First things first thogh i am going to get a modified idler and tensioner to prevent the belt driftingh.Then i will sort the thermostat and the ebv.

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262200
21/12/2006 06:27
21/12/2006 06:27

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Out of interest, what sort of money are they charging for the 'live map'?

Also can they actually map on the road motec style?

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262201
21/12/2006 06:41
21/12/2006 06:41

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



They quoted a price of £450 to myself fergie.

Ross

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262202
21/12/2006 06:51
21/12/2006 06:51

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



does anybody know if the can do 16vt's too???

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262203
21/12/2006 07:29
21/12/2006 07:29
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 928
Wimbledon
paddy Offline
Enjoying the ride
paddy  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 928
Wimbledon
Isn't the 16 valve easier to live map, as it uses the same ECU as one of the for cosworths, so there are more places that do it? I'm Sure Begbie will correct me...

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262204
21/12/2006 14:13
21/12/2006 14:13
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,917
J
JimO Offline
Forum veteran
JimO  Offline
Forum veteran
J

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,917
Quote:

Looking at other Superspool results, I think there's scope to get that wallop of torque a little earler. What boost were you running and what fuel were you using?




The trouble with that is the SS already hits hard and quickly and puts great strain on the clutch, esp through 1st to 3rd and between 2k and 4k rpm. If you bring the torque forward anymore, you will have severe traction problems and the clutch will burn out in a matter of months

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262205
21/12/2006 15:51
21/12/2006 15:51
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
Forum veteran
Nigel  Offline
Forum veteran

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Fergie

I paid just under £600 on Monday, but less modified cars may well be rather easier to map - I was running 1.6 bar

It can be live mapped - when Rob had done the basic mapping (about 98% correct) we went for a trundle around while he sat in the passenger seat withthe laptop.

It was most impressive to be able to tell him that (for example) it was a bit "fluffy" coming off tickover - ten seconds and a bit of keyboard tapping later, it wasn't fluffy any more. He changed the map about a dozen times while we trundled around town - made the car significantly easier to drive off boost - before it was a bit on/off with iffy tickover and jerky throttle response.

I just wished Perfect Touch live mapping had been an option straight after I had my big rebuild - it would have saved me thousands of pounds and thousands of miles back and forward trying to map around an incorrectly wired Unichip.


[Linked Image]
Re: Perfect touch live map results #262206
22/12/2006 00:25
22/12/2006 00:25

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



I can see clutch problems in the future.theres no way that this amount of spool up can be stood by a stock clutch.I did fit a new one when i changed the engine which helps.I have already uprated the gear oil to a race spec to help minimise increased temps but the boxes are usually bombproof.
The 16vt i got the impression from rob was alot more difficult to map.I didnt ask why.
Quote:

Out of interest, what sort of money are they charging for the 'live map'?



I got quoted 450 too.I was there all day though and was then quoted about 750 inc vat .Although i think he was overcharging me to get some back on the bumper .I ended up paying 450 and i have to sort the bumper myself .Personally i wouldnt have paid more than 450 as thats what i was quoted.But the final result was bang on which is the main thing.Only problem now is im left with a 300 quid bill to stand for my bumper which i think will leave me out of pocket.However he says he will look after me in feb when i return but we will see.Im pi55ed off though as i had to get it specially made and had to go up to scunthorpe for the day.And i had just got everything on the bodywork side sorted.

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262207
22/12/2006 01:37
22/12/2006 01:37
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
JohnS Offline
I need some sleep
JohnS  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
I suppose there are benefits in terms of cost for the Unichip, as after the initial outlay the cost of mapping is likely to be less.

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262208
22/12/2006 01:44
22/12/2006 01:44

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



This always strikes someone to argue,but.In my opinion the unichip is a bad idea as its an indirect way of tuning.I prefer the live map as the ecu itself tells the car what to do.Not a piggyback unit fooling the ecu.In my opinion they will work against each other.If the unichip was cheap then fair enough but why live tune that instead of just mapping your own chip.But saying that alot of jap users get 500-600 bhp on the unichips without probs so perhaps its just me.

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262209
22/12/2006 02:12
22/12/2006 02:12
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Flea Offline
Forum is my life
Flea  Offline
Forum is my life

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
It's just you mate (well and a couple of others too) You can't fool an ecu, it's a computer! You are simply sending it the info it needs to make the car perform better Anyway, it's not about opinions or feelings with computers it's results and the Unichip does a pretty good job at getting them


[Linked Image]

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262210
22/12/2006 02:20
22/12/2006 02:20

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A







I got quoted 450 too.I was there all day though and was then quoted about 750 inc vat .Although i think he was overcharging me to get some back on the bumper .I ended up paying 450 and i have to sort the bumper myself .Personally i wouldnt have paid more than 450 as thats what i was quoted.




ive been quoted £450 also
surely if he says £450 thats it!! i dont like hidden charges and i cant remember if it was plus or including the vat!!??

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262211
22/12/2006 02:29
22/12/2006 02:29

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Quote:

ive been quoted £450 also
surely if he says £450 thats it!! i dont like hidden charges and i cant remember if it was plus or including the vat!!??




Me neither.But nigel paid more than was quoted.Its all plus vat as well.So that means they charged me over 250 quid for tightening the oil filter,steaming the underneath and bypasssing the ebv.Wtf...
And a lot of the time they were going onto other jobs as well and leaving mine.
If i knew i was paying for it i would have gone to a garage paid 5 quid for a steam,tightened the filter and bypassed the ebv myself.I mean we are only talking an hours work.Looks like i have been ripped then.Charging too much to compensate for the damage.

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262212
22/12/2006 02:33
22/12/2006 02:33

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



i want a simple honest good service! i will pay what he quotes and not a penny more! thats exactly how i play it in my garage!

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262213
22/12/2006 02:37
22/12/2006 02:37

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



definately,and thats my attitude except it was late at night i was tired had a bad day and didnt think about the amount they were charging for the extra work.I paid 450 as quoted but now im 300 out of pocket with the damage caused.

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262214
22/12/2006 04:33
22/12/2006 04:33
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
J
Jimbo Offline
Je suis un Coupé
Jimbo  Offline
Je suis un Coupé
J

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
Sorry you feel hard done by Johny

My car spent the entire day on the rollers at PT, Rob didnt manage to get the Live Map done so at about 2pm he fitted a unichip and mapped that.

I only paid for the unichip and 2hrs mapping. I couldn't fault the service ?

When I was at the garage a guy phoned up to get help with a Porsche that was stuck in gear, the company transporting the Porsche was going to charge £50 per wheel to put the car on some rollers so they could move it.
Claudio was so outraged at the cost of this that he took his own rollers in his car and fitted them to the Porsche him self to save the owner some money !

I dont think thats the actions of a guy trying to con someone out of money !

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262215
22/12/2006 04:42
22/12/2006 04:42

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Quote:

I dont think thats the actions of a guy trying to con someone out of money !



perhaps you should read this thread again then Jimbo....
I cannot fault the service,and the car is A1 and 100 times better.It is by far the most benefit in terms of money spent on the car.
Rob is sound and very knowledgeable,and i will go back once the little bits are sorted.But i feel had the car not been damaged i would of paid 450 anyway.I wouldnt have gone anymore.Also some people appear to have paid a different amount for the same service.

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262216
22/12/2006 04:54
22/12/2006 04:54
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
J
Jimbo Offline
Je suis un Coupé
Jimbo  Offline
Je suis un Coupé
J

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
I have read it Johny, I just cant see Claudio ripping anyone off ?

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262217
22/12/2006 05:12
22/12/2006 05:12

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Let me explain then,250 quid extra for pulling 2 pipes off the avcr solenoid and putting them onto a bleed valve...Tightening up a filter and then steaming the car.......
if you went into a garage for a full service and cambelt and they quoted you 450,then damaged your car and then said its still 450 would you pay.......I thought not.

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262218
22/12/2006 14:30
22/12/2006 14:30
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
Freddan72 Offline
Competition Level
Freddan72  Offline
Competition Level

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
johnybravoturbo: go back to PT and say that you want money for the bumper. Why should you pay for the repair???


Coupé Fiat 20V Turbo Plus 1999, T19 Mitsubishi turbo
https://youtu.be/O9qrLj3Ap00 Now FCP Stage3!
Re: Perfect touch live map results #262219
22/12/2006 15:54
22/12/2006 15:54
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
Forum veteran
Nigel  Offline
Forum veteran

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
JBT - your first few posts on this thread were praising PT - now you've changed your tune. Has something else happened or been said since Tuesday?

I'm not picking a fight here, but lets look at it from PT's point of view

they quoted £450 to map the car - it took several hours more because of the problems.

IIRC, the £450 was always plus VAT - making £528, so they only charged you about £220 on top - a couple of hours labour.

Its a real shame about your bumper, however its not Rob's fault that your car was too low to get off the rollers (I assume it was a height issue, not Rob catching it on a post or something)

My personal experience of Perfect Touch is entirely the opposite - they have worked tirelessly to sort some of the problems on my car, and they certainly haven't charged me for all the time I have used.

The Coupe is a new market for them. They are very keen to make a good impression, but they will do so with their results, not by cutting corners or by dropping prices.

Like I said - not picking a fight, but there's always two sides to every story. Personally, I think you should speak with Claudio - he will listen and will try hard to help.


[Linked Image]
Re: Perfect touch live map results #262220
22/12/2006 16:21
22/12/2006 16:21
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
JohnS Offline
I need some sleep
JohnS  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
it isn't their fault if your car has problems when it arrives. I've been at Owen Devs. when they turned away a cossie because it was not prepared satisfactorily to be put on the rollers. Not sure if you'd rather have that happen or have your car fixed at their hourly rate?

When you get a live map from Perfect Touch they are putting an encryption board into your ECU as I understand it. That means that from thereon in you HAVE to go to them every time you want any sort of remap or else you'll have to start again from scratch (unlike the Unichip). So you are locked in to buying from them.

The reason the Unichip costs £600 to start with is that it is about £150 for the chip, an hours labour for the fitting/splicing the loom and then starting from a base map or nothing to the end result. With live mapping they are always starting from a known position so in principle to get the map right from major modifications is likely to cost you exactly the same as the first map minus the cost of the encryption board (circa £20). That makes it potentially a pretty expensive option if you're planning to get multiple remaps.

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262221
22/12/2006 18:06
22/12/2006 18:06
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
Forum veteran
Nigel  Offline
Forum veteran

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
John - not sure about the encryption board - they're simply plugging in a chip and hooking it up to an emulator to create maps

their chip can be removed and a standard (or G-Tec) chip plugged straight in without any problems


[Linked Image]
Re: Perfect touch live map results #262222
22/12/2006 18:46
22/12/2006 18:46

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Quote:

JBT - your first few posts on this thread were praising PT - now you've changed your tune. Has something else happened or been said since Tuesday?

I'm not picking a fight here, but lets look at it from PT's point of view

they quoted £450 to map the car - it took several hours more because of the problems.



I seem to be covering the same ground here
I dont have a problem with the result .I agree that the service that has been had there is exceptional,and mine was no different in terms of the car before and after.However i was not told i would be paying for the extras.I am in a similar line of work and if it costs more you get it authorised first.In my opinion i think that if they hadnt damaged the bumper it would have been 450+vat still.I asked Claudio on several phone calls if i should remove the bumper and he said no,it will be fine and then first time in and its ripped off.Again sh17 happends,i have damaged customers cars before.I told Claudio i would pay for the days RR and then send him the bill for a new bumper.I felt then the price went through the roof,and i was pressurised into sorting it then and there.This is perhaps something that i need to contact him about again.Like i said i am well happy with the result but i feel the days events caused me to pay more than anyone else and i dont think thats fair.So im paying over 700 quid now and 2 tanks of fuel to scunthorpe.So itll be nearly 800 by the time its sorted.So ask yourself would you pay 800 for 3 hours RR and a steam off of the car.I THOUGHT NOT!!!!!!!!

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262223
22/12/2006 19:13
22/12/2006 19:13
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
Forum veteran
Nigel  Offline
Forum veteran

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
I've paid a LOT more than £800 to Perfect Touch (WELL into four figures)

by the time I pick the car up tomorrow, I will have been there six times, at a round trip of 320 miles.

Each visit has been caused by the previous mapping going wrong, due to problems on the car.

I cannot expect Perfect Touch to stand the cost of these problems (although as already mentioned, they have been VERY accomodating)

You've hit the nail on the head twice in your post:

1) We're covering the same ground
2) Sh!t happens (especially with modded Coupes!)

I think we should bring this thread back on topic before it sparks a bun-fight. There's only one person that you should be speaking with - Claudio. Sure, you can post how you feel, but nobody else can answer properly on PTs behalf.

Until Claudio has had chance to answer your grievance, its unfair to judge him. If he tells you to bog off, please feel free to come and tell us. However, if he sorts something out with you, then the problem has gone away.

I know how you feel - its sometimes very difficult to be the only person thats had a bad experience at a garage and saying so in the face of lots of happy customers. However, (within reason) this forum allows free speech, but sweetened with a spoonful of common sense.

Speak to Claudio and let us know how you get on


[Linked Image]
Re: Perfect touch live map results #262224
22/12/2006 19:34
22/12/2006 19:34
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
JohnS Offline
I need some sleep
JohnS  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
Quote:

John - not sure about the encryption board - they're simply plugging in a chip and hooking it up to an emulator to create maps

their chip can be removed and a standard (or G-Tec) chip plugged straight in without any problems




Yeah I know how the mapping works, I also have the equimpement to do it

I know their chip can be replaced with a standard one, but my point is that as it is encrypted their map cannot be modified by anyone except themselves (there is an intermediate board between the ECU socket and the chip they've burnt for you). If you want to go somewhere else for live mapping they would have to start again from a base map not from the map Perfect Touch have done from you - unlike with the Unichip.
So you are totally dependent in future on Perfect Touch for any/all future mapping more or less.

A similar thing happens on my Motec. Some tuners password lock the map so that only they can amend it, and that means if you want to go to a different tuner they have to start again from either a base map (if one exists) or nothing.


Former low boost hero - 616BHP@1.5 bar. 2.4 20VT RIP
Re: Perfect touch live map results #262225
23/12/2006 01:20
23/12/2006 01:20

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Quote:

I think we should bring this thread back on topic before it sparks a bun-fight.



i couldnt agree more im getting fccuked off with all these difference in opinions when i know im right

Re: Perfect touch live map results #262226
23/12/2006 02:44
23/12/2006 02:44
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,180
Havant, Hampshire.
OO7 Offline
Competition Level
OO7  Offline
Competition Level

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,180
Havant, Hampshire.
Just a few quick question that I've got from reading this post.

1. It's been said that they use their own chip, so I take it you don't need to run a G-Tech or the like?

2. If it does use it's own chip dose that mean if you've had this fitted and then (many years later ) you decided to sell the car and want to sell you mods separately (exhaust, filter, FMIC etc..) you can just replace that chip with the standard chip and the car will run as standard (you wouldn't have to have it mapped back to standard)?

3. If you can do the above would the PT chip be worth anything to another moder, if removed, when wanting to sell the coupé as standard?

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1
(Release build 20190129)
PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 13 (0.006s) Memory: 0.8773 MB (Peak: 1.0847 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-04-19 10:03:10 UTC