2 registered members (Henklia, 1 invisible),
284
guests, and 2
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums69
Topics113,877
Posts1,343,501
Members1,597
|
Most Online731 Jan 14th, 2020
|
|
|
First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271bhp.
#317335
15/03/2007 00:07
15/03/2007 00:07
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
This is my first rr session. My engine mods are as follows: Pro alloy FMIC, SIP with Apexi power filter (group buy), Gtech 2, Apexi boost controller, turbo XS BOV. Graphs http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l115/rickbull83/Extreme%20motorsport%203%20march/Dastekpower.jpghttp://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l115/rickbull83/Extreme%20motorsport%203%20march/Dastekextras.jpgThe operator thought it was fuelling well which was my main concern although he said it could be slighter richer in the mid section. Commented that as it was running lean when on spool up this was a good thing as it helped the turbo spool better. The boost spikes are down to the apexi being on self learn apparently. Says he could sort them out with a few hours on the rollers. Also flatten the torque curve between 3000 and 5000 rpm Next mod will be an exhaust of some sort and walbro. Not sure if i should go for downpipe, de cat etc. What sort of gains could i expect from a de-cat? or downpipe back? turbo back exhaust? watching the other thread about the best system anxiously... Have my duty set so that it tails of significantly after 5500 rpm. Operator said it could have held more boost but i didn't want to push it too much as i had been advised before that this is enough for my current set up. Thoughts/reccomendations please
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271bhp.
[Re: ]
#317345
15/03/2007 00:27
15/03/2007 00:27
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
is that dastek edinburgh? looking about getting them to map my car in the next month or so..
Recommend them? helpful?
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271bhp.
[Re: ]
#317352
15/03/2007 00:32
15/03/2007 00:32
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271bhp.
[Re: ]
#317590
15/03/2007 03:53
15/03/2007 03:53
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Isnt 50bhp more from the wheels to the fly at bit excessive? Someone else i know went and he had same at the wheels as yourself but managed to get 100bhp more at the fly????? evo 5. WTF?
Ross
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271bhp.
[Re: ]
#317601
15/03/2007 04:04
15/03/2007 04:04
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,729 N.E Scotland
mattB
Club member 6
|
Club member 6
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,729
N.E Scotland
|
Nah, dastek in fife are just called Dastek.
Death-rattle-tastic
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#317778
15/03/2007 13:12
15/03/2007 13:12
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
This is my first rr session. My engine mods are as follows: Pro alloy FMIC, SIP with Apexi power filter (group buy), Gtech 2, Apexi boost controller, turbo XS BOV. Graphs http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l115/rickbull83/Extreme%20motorsport%203%20march/Dastekpower.jpghttp://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l115/rickbull83/Extreme%20motorsport%203%20march/Dastekextras.jpgThe operator thought it was fuelling well which was my main concern although he said it could be slighter richer in the mid section. Commented that as it was running lean when on spool up this was a good thing as it helped the turbo spool better. The boost spikes are down to the apexi being on self learn apparently. Says he could sort them out with a few hours on the rollers. Also flatten the torque curve between 3000 and 5000 rpm Next mod will be an exhaust of some sort and walbro. Not sure if i should go for downpipe, de cat etc. What sort of gains could i expect from a de-cat? or downpipe back? turbo back exhaust? watching the other thread about the best system anxiously... Have my duty set so that it tails of significantly after 5500 rpm. Operator said it could have held more boost but i didn't want to push it too much as i had been advised before that this is enough for my current set up. Thoughts/reccomendations please If were you I'd hold off on the exhaust until you make a decision about what your next turbo will be. Then perhaps get the turbo and turbo-back exhaust at the same time, you'll probably also need the walbro and some sort of custom mapping at the same time!
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: Freddan72]
#317985
15/03/2007 18:33
15/03/2007 18:33
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
its a dastek rr but not at dastek's headquarters in Dalgety bay.
I went to extreme motorsport near livingston.
Worked out transmission losses to be 18.5%. Not sure if thats good or not??
@ Hyper - not sure about your pals evo. I had a friend who had an evo 7 that made 360 bhp to the fly and i think his transmission losses were about 24%
Did the fuelling by putting a wideband lamdba up the tailpipe.
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#318032
15/03/2007 19:24
15/03/2007 19:24
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I would not worry about the boost at the top end - hold as much as you can if the fuelling is good for it. The standard turbo will not hold huge boost anyway - so dont worry, all that will happen if you try and hold more than 0.8 bar redline is you'll get boost fluctations.
Next mods should be a full exhaust with decat (if you go for a hybrid turbo then I'd pick 2.5 inch exhaust and downpipe, or maybe a 3 inch if you opt for a roller bearing and dont mind a bit of boomy noise), hybrid or roller bearing turbo (lots of info on turbo choice in the tuning section)and a walbro fuel pump with direct voltage feed. I would also go for custom mapping, and do all of the above in one go, and you'll be running 300 - 350 bhp depending on your choice of turbo, which will most likely mean new and uprated clutch time as well....
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#320710
19/03/2007 23:36
19/03/2007 23:36
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Cheers for the advice suba.
I think i will opt for a hybrid of some sort so might go back on the rollers once i've got an exhaust sorted out and try holding more boost at redline to see what she makes. Then when funds allow i think i'll either get mine made into a hybrid or wait for a good second hand hybrid to come along.
From reading various different opinions on websites a loss of 18.5% isn't too bad for a ff car running standard transmission with 270 bhp?
What have other folk with similiar power had via transmission losses?
Cheers
Last edited by rickbull83; 19/03/2007 23:38. Reason: spelling
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#320794
20/03/2007 01:17
20/03/2007 01:17
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
A hybrid like the GTI-R will hold 1.15 bar at the redline - so you'll make a lot more power - same kick as the standard turbo low down, but no real drop off in power up the top. I was running this turbo and my engine went pop at the top of fourth - which I put down to the walbro pump not getting enough voltage to get the fuelling right. Hence after a rebuild I did not push the engine at all until it was fully mapped.
I've got no idea about transmission losses - whenever my car has been mapped I've made sure it's running fairly conservatively. You'll find that you'll get different results on differnt rollers - and even the same rollers on different days.
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#321876
21/03/2007 12:38
21/03/2007 12:38
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
What have other folk with similiar power had via transmission losses? It's nothing to do with how much power you are running mate, it's only ever shown as a percentage. Transmission losses is probably the most contentious issue when it comes to rolling roads - the higher the transmission loss they factor in, the more pub bhp you have In an ideal world, ALL bhp figures would be at-wheels, as really this is all that counts. But it doesn't work like that. Don't get too hung up on the power figures (which look very good by the way, even if assume 15% loss which is more normal from experience).
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#321886
21/03/2007 13:10
21/03/2007 13:10
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
George at Xtreme used to me my karting mechanic, a good friend of mine. John Swift who owns the place is a very good guy too. I will be putting my car on there soon when i fit my new I/C to get it re-mapped.
I reckon you'll get a bit more info from Xtreme as opposed to Dastek who are a bit reserved when it comes to telling youu what is what, especially when if you are like me a lot of the jargon is foreign.
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#322294
22/03/2007 02:42
22/03/2007 02:42
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Yeah John and George both seem top blokes!
Friendly and knowledgeable.
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#323641
23/03/2007 22:12
23/03/2007 22:12
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Rick, how come you've gone for a Gtec2 rather than a Gtec1? Just wondered really as my setup is slightly more modded that yours, but not alot(Hybrid and Exhaust) and I'm still with a Gtec1. Just wondered really.
Cheers,
Mark
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#323678
23/03/2007 22:55
23/03/2007 22:55
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
It was GreameL that said i should opt for the Gtech 2 as opposed to the Gtech 1. I understand that i can run a Gtech 2 due to the FMIC. Better cooling and dense air so can have more ignition advance.
Better speaking to him yourself for more accurate advice
What sort of power are you running with hybrid and exhaust? Is it a full system, de-cat, downpipe etc?
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#324645
25/03/2007 20:13
25/03/2007 20:13
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Cheers, I'm just wondering when I should move over to the gtec2 from gtec1. Current is 272lb/ft Torque and 228bhp(not sure why it's quite that low though, think it was PRV & boost leak doing it). I'll ping Gramham a PM once I am sorted.
It's a full supersprint with de-cat, standard downpipe though, also got a pace SMIC too. I should be getting the Pro Alloy FMIC and straight induction tomorrow. When thats fitted I'm hoping for about 280bhp and similar torque as the boost leak should be solved with the PA FMIC, also got electronic boost controller now too, so will be holding boost better to the redline. Then it's time for a live map as that'll be engine tuning finished for me.
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#324652
25/03/2007 20:26
25/03/2007 20:26
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Cheers, I'm just wondering when I should move over to the gtec2 from gtec1. Current is 272lb/ft Torque and 228bhp(not sure why it's quite that low though, think it was PRV & boost leak doing it). I'll ping Gramham a PM once I am sorted.
It's a full supersprint with de-cat, standard downpipe though, also got a pace SMIC too. I should be getting the Pro Alloy FMIC and straight induction tomorrow. When thats fitted I'm hoping for about 280bhp and similar torque as the boost leak should be solved with the PA FMIC, also got electronic boost controller now too, so will be holding boost better to the redline. Then it's time for a live map as that'll be engine tuning finished for me. Guarantee the bhp is low because its not holding the boost. Ross
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#355392
13/05/2007 18:51
13/05/2007 18:51
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Thoughts on fuelling please. I realise this is quite a delayed response but at the time the operator said the car was fuelling well. So I took his word on the matter. The photobucket link is at the top of the thread. (dastekextras, 2nd one) Upon closer examination the fuelling seems to be rather lean till about 4000 - 4500 rpm. Is this worryingly lean? Should I be concearned? The operator John who has had a few coupes and has tuned lots of high powered evo's ( http://www.extreme-motorsport.co.uk ) said that as the fuelling is on the lean side it helps generate boost quicker and stronger. Thought/comments much appreciated. Cheers
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#355858
14/05/2007 04:09
14/05/2007 04:09
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
The operator John who has had a few coupes and has tuned lots of high powered evo's ( http://www.extreme-motorsport.co.uk ) said that as the fuelling is on the lean side it helps generate boost quicker and stronger. He's correct in what hes saying but its not advantageous to do so if it comprimises the safety of the engine. I cant see the fuelling cause its photobucket and im at work but i will check when i get home in an hour and let ya know what i think. Ross
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#356139
14/05/2007 17:55
14/05/2007 17:55
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
It looks very lean to me, it looks like it's in the 13s for most of the midrange. Common advice on here seems to be somewhere in the 11s, the maybe leaning out to 12.1:1 at the top end - I'd get that sorted asap.
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#356146
14/05/2007 18:04
14/05/2007 18:04
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Agreed. Just checked that. Far too lean midrange. Its nearly 14 at some points. Then at redline the fuelling is spot on. I would think that your having difficulty fuelling the midrange because of the extra fuelling the increase in boost is asking for. I think with either walbro pump and fuel mod upgrade or cleaning of injectors, you would be able to sort that out.
Ross
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#356168
14/05/2007 18:33
14/05/2007 18:33
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
You have the following options:
Change the chip for a GTEC 1, and check the car again.
Change the fuel pump for a walbro 255 and make sure the pump is getting enough voltage under load (modify the feed to it if necessary.)
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#356196
14/05/2007 19:15
14/05/2007 19:15
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
You might even want to try the standard chip - on my coop the standard chip was richer than the GTEC1 and GTEC1 HF (although apparently this isn't normal!)
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#356574
15/05/2007 04:08
15/05/2007 04:08
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Thanks for the comments guys.
Much appreciated!!
I have been meaning to get a walbro for a while now. Shall purchase one tomorrow and do the voltage mod asap.
Will put it back on the rollers after to see if that helps the problem.
Cheers
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: ]
#356579
15/05/2007 04:17
15/05/2007 04:17
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Thanks for the comments guys.
Much appreciated!!
I have been meaning to get a walbro for a while now. Shall purchase one tomorrow and do the voltage mod asap.
Will put it back on the rollers after to see if that helps the problem.
Cheers Be interested to see what happens dude. Give me a shout when your heading over!! Ross
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: Flea]
#356661
15/05/2007 14:21
15/05/2007 14:21
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Mines was running lean too in the midrange so we are going to put a FPR on so that it holds a steady rate better. Also with re-mapping the unichip you can alleviate this by adding in more fuel in the relative part of the rev/power/torque range. That might not be the best description but that's the whole idea fo having the unichip i thought????
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: Flea]
#356664
15/05/2007 14:23
15/05/2007 14:23
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Good point Leight - had not thought about that.
|
|
|
Re: First rolling road at Extreme motorsport. 271b
[Re: Flea]
#356763
15/05/2007 17:06
15/05/2007 17:06
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I don't think the fuel pump is the issue. Given that your open loop fueling at the top end is good i.e. high 11s low 12s, this means that the pump can supply enough fuel under full load. Changing the fuel pump does not effect your fueling beyond the fact it can deliver a greater capacity should you require it. I would instead look to moderate the fueling maps via another chip or adjustable regulator. It is quite usual to see a coop running lean coming on boost. Running it lean does help spool and due to this the ignition is retarded although it is still common to experience a bit of pinking when hitting full boost. Cheers for the info there! What would you recommend I do then flea? Is the car running dangerously lean in the midrange? I know its hard to see the AFR from photobucket. The car is running a Gtech 2 from GrahamL. Should I see if he can alter the chip so that the fuel in the midrange is greater? Have been meaning to get a walbro for a while now. I understand that the fuelling is better a redline but would fitting a walbro help the situation? Or is it more of a future proof mod?
|
|
|
|