just thought i'd let you know - you're wrong <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> GC tuning FL twin cams p80 fig 8/1 for reference to this.

Alexis did you get a micrometer, check the journal sizes they can be undersize the adjacent web sohuold have it marked. might aswell take this oppotunity to rdius the oil ways and key hole them like mine, dont forget to polish the finish the cutters are fairly cheap. just need a grinder - did you have a compressor?

rich

So Tanc Barrett,Fiat Ireland and my 2 mechanics here in Ireland are wrong?Because according to all mentioned(Tanc Barrett even went to great lengths to find this out for me from his files/list books) the Fiat Coupe 16v turbo crank itself is a standard cast item (is listed as one too in various parts books) and not forged.Maybe they are all wrong.

sorry , but what is the difference between a forged and
a cast crankshaft ?


BTW , great pics Begbie !

cheers.

forged cranks are pressed between dyes the material is squashed into shape, and cast are made from poured material into a mould. the parting line or flash on the items is a good indicator of the process. Paddy maybe they are, but either way the need for a forged crank is only really apparent on the high rpm, the greastest forces are at tdc on the exhaust cycle at max rpm. the 16v cranks are tuftrided - this gives the journals a very low coefficient of friction, and a non metallic grain structure for a number of microns and good fatigue resistance especially on the fillets where the greatest stress is.

rich

On what are you basing this claim ?

Read my 2nd post on this thread and you will know. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sedici-My initial comment was to begbie with regards to a couple of posts and P.M,s we had before about this matter.So you dont know what was said and its going to stay that way.

Now with regards to a forged crank-You contradicted what I typed by saying that I was wrong.Now you are backing down in your last post.Please dont do this again and tell me basicly that Im wrong.

If you dont believe me then speak on the phone to Tanc Barrett,Fiat Ireland and my 2 mechanics.I think that especially Tanc Barrett and Fiat Ireland kinda know what they are talking about too,as they are both very well up to date on these matters and all matters Fiat Coupe.Im out of here now.So this is my last post.Thanks and Bye-Pat. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Can we please not take my own thread off topic here, if you wish to discuss if it is / isn't forged, then start your own thread regarding this

looking pretty good begbie!!!!!!

haven't a clue what you are talking about. nite nite <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lock this thread please <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Just a few more pics of my head work in progress

Head 1
Head 2
Head 3
Head 4
Head 5
Head 6

Also my block has now been flex-honed by Serdi, just need to collect the block, then drop my crank and flywheel off with Serdi for them to balance and lighten it for me, so hopefully should be able to start putting the engine back in a couple of weeks, which will be nice <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

how long til you blow this one up begbie? lol

13% increase in air flow is a good result <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Whats the name of the company doing the work Begbie and dare I ask how much ?

Guy Croft is doing the head work, price, well needless to say its a lot as the spec is something as follows :

Strip and pressure test head
New bronze valve guides, these then need honing to fit (come oversize)
3 angle seats to race spec
Full Gas flow inc inlet manifold
C&B fast road cams (10.3mm lift)
Triple Valve Springs (allows a safe 8000rpm)
New shims
Then getting it all rebuilt

And Craig, no im not intending on blowing this one up

It'll be interesting to see the results from that little lot, I hope it pays off.
I was surprised at Suba's results from the PTS mapping session after all his head work the results were no different/slightly less than a similar modded coupe without any head work done ? I was expecting slightly more but maybe its in need of a set of cams to make the most of the heads extra flow ability ?

I don't recall you intending to blow up the last three either, but it still happened <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

3? Everyone seems to confuse turbo's for engines <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I have killed 2 turbo's (both at coupe events) and killed 1 engine, thats it, nothing more, nothing less <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I think subas headwork wasnt as "extensive" as it could have been. Also its not always about top power. He probably has an all round better graph over a non headwork engine.

Also, good luck with the project dude. Any eta?

Ross

headwork without testing will often produce dissapointing results. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Beggars I guess you are happy with your decision now. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

rich

Don't mean to hijack this thread Begbie just a couple of points:

I wanted a head that was not opened up too much to preserve the torque and mid range - Hence choosing a 28R to complement this rather than a 28RS. I could have got more top end if I ran more than 1.1 bar @ redline - but did not want to risk it for the sake of figures + would not run this daily anyway. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Sheiks ran a similar head and the same turbo with similar boost profile for 330bhp - but using an aquamist so they could plot a more aggressive map. My engine had also done only 900 gentle miles before the mapping - it does feel a bit looser now the boost has been up for a few weeks, so maybe another 5-10 bhp on a cold run would be possible - nothing to write home about really.

The only real way to tell how effective the headwork has been would be to stick a standard head on for a direct comparison on PTS's rolling road...

Blimey beggers,

Honestly it sounds like we all need to be pre warned before you fire this "bad boy" up (ie not to be in the local area) just incase roads start to split and crumble

LOL <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Well small update today, all my head work is being shown over here and almost complete, just need to send a couple of small items onto Guy Croft and thats my head complete <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Block has been delayed for a week because Fiat need to know a chassis number before they can sell Barbz some core plugs <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Crankshaft and flywheel are back from Serdi. Crank has been balanced and the flywheel has been skimmed, lightened and balanced (and im 90% sure that this flywheel has been lightened more than the other one still on my old engine!)

Crank 1
Crank 2
Crank 3
Flywheel 1
Flywheel 2

this is such nonesense of fiat, I wanted some fiat center caps, non specific to a vehicle, but they wanted a chassis number - why, as if core plugs are specific, if they're metric you can buy them from autoconnect in packs.

rich

Thought i would give this a little bump as i actually haven't contributed to this in a while.

Well life has been a bit errmmm.... recently, time, money, work and other factors have caused this to slow down a bit (as well as fitting the rollcage!) and with winter coming up not a lot is going to be happening in the mean time.

As of such i am going to be speaking to a couple of people about building the engine for me. They know what they are doing, whereas i will be doing it for the first time, and after the amount of money that i have invested in this project, i dont want to make a minor mistake for it to all go horribly wrong, but i do have everything i need to put the engine together so all im doing is paying someone to assemble it all for me.

Other things to come are :

20vt 6 speed box (thanks to Carlt and Rog <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)
Turbo (Still GT30, just need to decide on housing)
Clutch (undecided on paddle or twin)
ECU (still looking towards motec m4 pro)
Injectors
Various bits and pieces (oil lines, water lines, painting, more samco's, wiring, cable covers etc..)

My deadline for this project is now easter 2007, so only 6 months to finish this, lets hope i get my 10% bonus in a months time and a suitable payrise in december <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Hi,

Now that I'm aiming higher too <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> one question, has anyone really calculated the needed airflow or boost in different rpm's to achieve a 400 bhp out of engine. According to that what I have learned, experieced and spoken with other turbo freaks <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have come to the conclusion that following values need to be reached:
At least 400 bhp:
6000 rpm: 1.8 bar boost
6500 rpm: 1.5-1.6 bar boost
7000 rpm: 1.4 bar boost

Otherway round:
to get 400 bhp I need to have around 36 - 38 lb/min airflow.

At the moment with my old turbo GT28RS 0.86 I have managed to get twice 356 bhp and 357 bhp with 1.42 and 1.45 bar boost (values taken from video of RR session). If I calculate the needed airflow with engine VE 90%, there has been around 30-32 lb/min airflow.

We all know that the higher we want to go the bigger will all the losses be.

So, do anyone have better knowledge to share?

Also it is clear that 4 cylinder will have some benefit of bigger bore, but in the end we have 2 litre engines.


Regards,

Jari

I believe Flea and Nigel have both been just shy of 400 hp with just 1.4 bar boost

I showed 394bhp at about 6,500rpm at 1.5 bar peak (about 1.4 bar at 6,500)

Jari - your VE should be better than 90% - Begbie knows the figures, but it should be nearer 95%

I've checked the compressor map on my turbo and I can move 40lb at 1.5 bar and still be at 73% efficiency

All I need is some more octane, as the original PTS map (that gave me 394bhp) was giving detonation.

However, whilst I'd like to chase 400, I'm more interested in seeing what I can reliably achieve on pump fuel

Nigel,.. all you need is some methanol injection <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />,. then you'll be on 'race fuel' all the time <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

It was worth a good 15 lb/ft for me, I'm sure you'd probably get even more!

Joe

boost level for 400BHP depends on the efficiency of the engine and is completely different for different turbo choices. If you put a GT4088 on your car I'm sure you'd make 400BHP at less than 1 bar boost. Would be the worlds most laggy coupe though <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />