K35t3r - who built your engine? IIRC, you have a VERY similar spec to me - GT2871, flowed head, forged pistons on standard rods etc etc

Minus the flowed head and forged pistons.
Anyway under Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (as amended). I have a fighting chance. In the long run I will let you know how it ends

I'm sure they'd do a compression test - if you asked them and paid for it.

regarding cars running 400bhp on the stock internals - it's not the power itself that will muller pistons - it's det. You can have a car running 250 bhp that's detting and it will mash a piston.

IIRC Standard engine, GT2871R, Evo FMIC, SIP.

Kester do you have an uprated fuel pump and wiring mod? If not it's funny how the car still managed to provide enough fuel at 347bhp!

Can you post your complete spec? (not you Ken!)

ive used pt before and found rob to be a top guy but i was put off a bit by claudio's attitude a bit. i have a few mates in the skyline cokmmunity and rate rob (tweenierob)very highly with there cars as he has done so many! i would have thought that rob has done a fair few coops now that he knows what he is doing with the cars limits!

when i was down there with my last coop rob was back and forth like a yo yo telling me what was going on and luckilly enough i was thourough with my car the day before i went up and all was good. apart from a little clutch slip and my injectors coming close to max at 320 bhp so he backed it off to just under 300!

once my current coop is done i will be taking it straight up there again to be mapped after i have checked and replaced most of the corroded components etc!

i have been in rifts with garages before and its not nice! especially knowing that you are in the right.

i wish you good luck mate.

OK...

Just a quick post from me as i WILL NOT get pulled into any forum flame wars.
Facts time.
I mapped your car roughly 2 months ago (may have been closer) and your clutch was slipping, your car was boosting too high as the actuator is set to 1.2bar min. I told you to get a clutch fitted and that the car was not safe to drive hard until the map was finished. I even went to the length of removing your boost controller to give as much safety as i could to make sure the car came back in one peice. The first thing you told me when you arrived was that the car had been boosting to 1.2bar and you told Matt in the office that whilst your mate had been driving the car the car had hit 1.7bar WTF!
A few points, firstly on removing your spark plugs you have standard heat range spark plugs fitted. Not even 7's, BKUR6 When you brought your car up to me last time i asked you clearly if everything was specced to support the power wanted, you said the only weak link was the clutch which was true and it slipped.
You told me that you had an oil change on friday, after commenting on how black the oil was a few times you said that the oil had been topped up. When i dipped the oil it was .9litres low and only just showing on the dipstick, this was after being filled on friday.
As agreed by everyone in the dyno cell there is/was about 100ml of oil on the floor, ironically the oil on the centre beam was from a golf turbo that split an oil pipe on the dyno on sat. It isnt anywhere near where your breather is.
Lets go with all the oil in the whole cell is from your car, 100ml not .9litres.... In fact, why did your car 'need a refill' on friday...
When you first came in you told me the rocker cover was leaking badly, i had spotted a small 3mm spec of oil on the SIP on the turbo but this was below the rocker cover leak.
I set up my equipment on the dyno, fitted your boost controller again and got started, as usual practise i pull timing so i can work back up again.
I did 3 light throttle drives up to 3500 to check fuelling was close low down, happy with that i reset the boost controller and started the first power run. As boost came up i came off the throttle as i was not happy with the smoke from the exhaust. I brought the car back onto light throttle and there was no smoke but i was not happy to continue. I checked under the bonnet and there was oil from the breather, i then asked if you was happy for me to do a compression test to ses if comp was down. On pulling the plugs i noticed they were the wrong grade for your tune and that plug number one had signs of det on it, there was no det whilt i had the car on the dyno as i had my det cans on and the timing was pulled back.
After a bit of blaming from you i got my own camera out to take some pictures, on closer inspection the oil filter is leaking badly the rocker cover is pissing out. The underneath of the car is soaked in oil (all photographed), when oil leaks on the dyno, the fan is so strong it blows the oil across the floor as will show in a picture you took. Not soak the underneath like tha car has been waxoiled, and certainly not on the other side of the car under the oil filter ;).
You told me that the car had never dropped a drop of oil on your drive, yet the oil filter is soaked/rocker cover pissing out/ sump leaking/turbo oil leak (confirmed by your mechanic)? Come off it!

Your car is running exactly the same as it came in, not missing a beat. It starts and runs fine but as i told you yesterday i am not happy with the breathing. there is no smoke from the exhaust on idle or light throttle, i am not happy to bring the car on boost as there is a problem there as we have found.
A representative from our dyno was updating our software to the new release on a new operating system (down form sunny scotland ) the extrapolation for drive losses was out if i did not complete the run, the dive losses are calculated over a % of the run. As i came off the throttle due to the smoke the run was only to 5000rpm which gave an incorrect power figure. I cleared the run as i always do, this is as i will never give out an incorrect power figure FULL STOP.
The sofware has been configured now and all is fine.
You paid for an hours mapping which would have included a graph normally, however i was not happy to run your car again so you do not have power graph.


If anything everyone reading this can perhaps learn something, if your car is not built by us you need to make sure everything is in place to support the power you want.
If you tuner is happy to bolt on a turbo that is capable of 400+hp try and make sure you
a: have the spark plugs to go with it
b: if you have abnormal oil usuage find out why
c: if you are told the map is not complete and to take it easy until its finished due to slipping clutch, dont let your mate hit 1.7bar
d:if you boost is set to 1.2bar std and i ask you to get it dropped, i'm only trying to advise you what i think is best.
e:understand i am always on the end of the phone for advice, even if your own tuner doesnt want to make the call give me a shout.


This time i will publically state this so there is no confusion! Your car needs the boost dropping, you need the right grade of plugs, you need to sort the oil leaks out and you need to not drive your car hard like i told you!
When i told you this, you stated to me that 'you took too long to get me back in'.
We are flat out at the moment and i apologise for not getting you back in sooner BUT... you knew the score, dont drive the car hard!!!!!!!!

I wont get back on here as i have stated the facts, your car is here ready for collection as you brought it.
You told us yesterday that you are coming today with your mechanic. We are looking forward to talking to him.

Just to make sure all is clear as i havent read through the whole thread, roger from power fiat did not build this engine and AFAIK only topped the oil up. No question at all about his work.

Last but not least, is there a longest post award

Cheers

Rob

You lied to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You and your brother told me you had an engine built to take the power.

Not impressed!!

Rob

All i can say is wow, there is 2 sides to the story.

Ross

If people are talking about legal action, sale of goods act, making allegations against each other, etc, I think the conversation should be taken off line and concluded.

Then if either party wants to come back and post the results then fair play, but you don't need to do your dirty laundry in public. As Ross says there are clearly 2 sides and only 2 people involved, it should stay like that.

I completely agree but feel it only fair that Rob's been able to give he's side.

Suggest this is locked / removed now as it is between 2 parties and for the good of the Forum.

Well although i agree with the comments above, forum is a place for public discussion. Kester has decided to bring this on the forum, rob has decided to answer (even tho there is no need to). I dont think anything has been said which is out of hand, as such, but obviously the truth is out there somewhere.

Ross

I do think its the responsibility of the owner to make sure the car is in good health before getting it mapped, i waited a long time so could co-ordinate getting my turbo fitted then having it mapped the next day to avoid anything like this.

It all comes down to preparation, i tried to make sure everything was spot on for my car so there would be little chance of something going wrong. I think PT are pretty good and i would take my car there again in the future. As i said earlier, your car is under alot of stress on the rollers so component failure can occur, i really dont think that its something that a tuner or owner can fully anticipate so people should be prepared for the worst imo.

Its the price you pay for power!

Exactly....And if its not or you know of problems then your asking for trouble.
Listening to both sides im not sure if there is actually a problem or not,one thing is for sure i hope Perfect touch read these comments and learn from the feedback.As one bad ordeal goes along way on a forum.
And likewise Robs advice for preparing a car before the RR.

First the car was never boosted to 1.7. The overboost only happened once which I took to rog to sort out.
2nd my car doesn't leak oil. Coupes use oil and everyone knows this. The oil needed a topup as you do when you check the oil so it doesn't get low.
3rd, the only thing you said to me the last time was to do the clutch which I did.
4th, me or my brother never claimed the engine was modified. You knew this also from the first time the car was mapped.
5th, you never once consulted me during your runs and I even said to matt, everything must be going well as he hasn't come to see me once. I waited for up to 40mins before you came and said it made 347bhp which you didn't once say was an error.
6th, you refuse to show me any of the graphs or runs you did, even if not printouts, you showed me nothing on the computer
7. All the time I was there you said all the oil was mine and that I should be careful not to slip when taking pictures. You even said I should pay to get it cleaned. So what your saying is all the oil there has nothing to do with my car?
I can go on and on.
Basically your claiming there was an oil leak yet you still carried on the run without telling me. You as a professional didn't use your better judgement. You then say after spotting the oil there was smoke and you carried on without telling me or bringing the mapping to a stop.
You lot are been proper cowboys now. If you made a mistake you should rectify it. All Im asking is for my car to be running as it was when I brought it in. Which is all cylinders working and no leaks.

This thread is either going to be locked or removed at this rate....

If the car was not in a good state to map you would not have mapped it.
Therefore if you mapped it everything must have been ok.
I mean if you say it wasnt right from the start why did you turn the boost up and try and get more bhp?
I came to perfect touch looking to get better performance for my car and my car has ended up worse. Perfect touch as a company should rectify it and not let a customer go away with a faulty car when it was fine when it came in.
I still have no graphs for my runs.

K35t3r - I think if you read Rob's post, he's saying that he did three low power runs to settle the car, then did one full throttle run. During this run, the car smoked, so he aborted before reaching full power / revs. It was straight after this that the oil leak was noticed

Therefore, only one run was performed and even this wasn't complete. this in turn is the reason for not giving you any graphs - there's nothing to show!

Nigel im not going to argue ,but just out of interest whats the spec of this turbo as im very tempter myself.

Go to ATP turbo website - they come in a lot of different trims.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT28/GT2871R_472560_15.htm

Think this is the one?

Ross

Dare i ask the cost of the turbo?

ATP's site says it's not much more than a GT28RS.

Around the 1k mark.

Ross

Then everything else needs uprating.And who will do the engine rebuilding now barbz is no more

this thread is already being closely watched - please keep it on topic

Plenty of discussion about the GT2871R elswhere - Flea is proof that its good for the mid-400s

Im sure if it stays on topic then it wont be around for much longer.We cant have a forum where theres disagreements.

Oh no, that'll defo get it locked.

Back on topic, hopefully kester and pt can come to some arrangement where both parties are happy.

Ross

While i dont say much on this forum I have read this post and thought i should put my little bit in.

I dont have a coupe, but i have a coupe lump in my punto running DTA pro8 which is an after market ECU as many of you may know.

I took the car to PT late October 06 to have a cold start map. After a week of hearing nothing i called up for Claudio to say that he needed to rewire part of the loom. So i said ok (being a trusting person)all this turned out to be was an inline fuse, the fuse they used was even an old one.

another week later and i call back, he said he needed to FIT an idle control valve, i told him he didnt, but he wouldnt listen and fitted one anyway...which never worked!

He then blamed the ICV not working because of the ECU so he had rob rewire it. Did it work...NO!

all the while i was telling him that the early releases of DTA pro 8 didnt support an ICV and that it would run fine with the throttle position sensor.

after 2months..YES 2 MONTHS they were getting no where so i decided to pick it up. They wouldnt let me have it back without paying for the re-wiring which did nothing anyway, and i was lumbered with a £80 piece of silicone hose and an ICV off of a golf that i didnt need....£500 down.

The night i picked it up was about 6 pm,the car was running terrible and they had it idling at 1500rpm! I then made my way to a place called Track and Road in dartford, I went through £20 worth of fuel to get to dartford from PT which isnth that far, that just shows you how rich it was running.

Once at Track n Road, about 8pm by the time i got there (friday traffic on m25). I was there for 45mins and Steve the guy who runs TnR had it on the rollers within minutes, showed me the map that PT had done, the first part of it was fine if the ECU supported an ICV so in that respect they did it right, but seeing as the ICV was never going to work, the cocked up.

45 minutes later the car was idling at about 900rpm and not guzzling fuel.

Steve called me 5days later to tell me the car had been FULLY remapped and a cold start done not using the ICV.

I had heard good things about PT hence why i took it there, and continue to do so, however I will never take my car back there.

The first thing claudio said to me was that " he never rushes people if they have questions to ask or things to say" well IMO he was the complete opposite.

Be wary is all i can say.

All ill add is thanks PT you've helped me sell alot of engine's. If it wernt for you lot i'd probably not be in utter shortage at the moment.