Totally agree with Barbz depends on who is driving. Anyone been at Knockhill and seen me hassling the evo boys will tell you the coue does not bad considering.

Fergie the whole thing of how much is too much on standard internals is itself looking more and more like a black art to me. I am now in the process of upgrading my turbo to something that will flow up to 400bhp but only because i'm thinking ahaed for the forged route. However when i get it mapped i'll be putting restrictions on it to keep it within safe levels of BHP and NM's. I'm sure it was JohnS who said that it all depends on how good your car is flowing on what is good and what is bad and i tend to agree. The injector thing is interesting and i'm sure we could have a discussion on this re-fuelling.

That's not really true - the 2.4s run less advance because they run a higher CR. My car cannot make any more power with more fuel as anyway I'm making more than anyone has seen on a GT3076R on pump fuel pretty much regardless of engine type and regardless of the fact I run a lot less boost than most people on this turbo. The beauty of Barbz' engineering I guess, much like on yours that makes more on a GT2871R than anyone could reasonably expect.

Maybe Owens do back off the advance more than PT do - couldn't definitively say. Turns out my car made another 22BHP (590BHP) on road fuel without pinking but they didn't consider that safe at this power level and I asked for it to be conservative anyway. This is all mapped without water injection and then my water injection was added on top with fuel compensation but no extra advance either.

John, I wasn't just talking about 2.4s but the 2.0s also. All things being equal e.g. CR, Mark isn't quite as aggressive as Rob when it comes to mapping, this shows in terms of AFR and ignition timing. IMO, Rob is naturally too aggressive therefore you need to reign him in somewhat. Sometimes less is more...

Fair enough

Thinking about what Barbz and Sparco said, I guess "how fast" is largely down to

A. Who is driving
B. You may have 350hp but without decent tyres for the grip on straights and with out decent suspension and brakes for the corners If you can't get the power down - who Cares how fast you are / power you have?

A wise man said to me once "I dont want more than 300hp so I can still drive my car in the rain!"

Fuelling is such a weird issue. Im sure if everyone had brand new injectors, we could do a comparison, but it ranges so much. As i mentioned earlier, i have never had the problem of running lean.

Ross

Maybe Barbz can tell us the correct answer?

- Barbz, How do you get 350bhp?


Or is it a secret

don't know what all the fuss is about...mapped unmapped etc

If the result achieves the goal you set to achieve safely who cares?

My car was "unmapped" but the fueling was safe with no det.

I achieved well over 350bhp and i ran standard injectors and approx 3bar fuel pressure at the rail.

Even when the spark plugs were checked you could see that the fuelling was very good due the golden brown colour not sooty or black like some.

Amen In fact Markus was an orignal high boost hero running 1.8bar all "unmapped"... Barbz must have cast a very complex magical protection charm over that one

The answers are in the debate, all depends which camp you follow?

Maybe there isn't a straight answer to "how do you get 350bhp?"

Maybe the answer is how ever you manage to get there, well done!

All hail....

Lol.

Ross

State the obvious Ross

Does anyone find it quite surreal that Barbz is classed as a "Newbee"?

i was thinking that too, bt is it really him and is the post real???

Lol. Its barbz.

Ross

Barbz is hopeless with computers Yes its him.

Yes you could run 400bhp on standard internals and get away with it. Question is for how long... (Don't they do this in Scandanavia, but then the air temps are much lower?)

The simple answer is not as long as having forged internals - all being equal

We all agree heat is a killer - thats how so many standard turbos running big boost die - and lack of oil. But is boost pressure? Or is that the catalyst for heat? Fueling and det is another issue. We all know the coupe ringlands are pretty weak.