another thing, you don't really want to be running more than 1.2 bar at redline anyway!

Yeah thats why i asked about temps.

Ross

Oh right, you saw this at Barbz's before it was fitted? I know he was working on your car just before mine. Well that makes me feel better!



Yep that's exactly what it's doing - 1.5bar overboost on a 1.4bar target that steadily bleeds off to 1.2bar at about 6.8Krpm IIRC.



No. You might have to explain that one to me - what for? Is that wideband Lamda?



Yeah EBC was on my list to hold the boost better, as is a decent airbox. Should've gone for the SIP from Pro Alloy!

Other good news is the injectors should be fine for more power as when the Gtec2 HF chip was put in at 1.4bar it ran massively rich.

This is still running on the Novitec. Weird thing is that PT wouldn't give me a air:fuel quote even with direct asking, (nor could I sneakily fine one on the RR results on a quick play when no-one was looking...) only that the fuelling was "fine". Why would they refuse that info?

That is GAY, that they wont give ya an AFR. U have paid for a service...

GThe v-band is used to connect the turbo to the stnd downpipe. Unless u have a 5 stud custom dp, this is what you'll be using.

Ross

If you know the AFR and have good fueling then you wouldn't be needing a remap

Can I ask how much your service was?

This reminds me about 007 and his visit to PT and he also didn't get or saw any AFR graph. They just told him that it was okay

How do they know it's ok if the AFR isnt recorded? or am I missing something?

They will be able to check it when the car is running. Whether they log it or not, is a different issue.

Ross

^ exactly my thoughts! Do they just go by checking for Det then turn it down a tad? Or, given my experience, simply not care and if you've signed the waiver what do they have to worry about anyway?

Every other RR I've been to have measured and reported the AFR.

Oh btw, they charged me £190 inc VAT for 1.5 hours. A bit annoying when I could've just whacked up the boost myself then driven the car with a mic on the engine...

Stop moaning and phone them.

Ross

And ask what? If the AFR wasn't logged, they would go by memory? I think he was too interested in playing with the skylines and going out down the pub tbh...

They were also insistent that the turbo was a GT28R, despite what I said, but fair doos if they go by what power/torque it was producing.

I'd rather just forget the whole experience. Happy that the car is ok. Happy that it's quicker. A bit confused than disappointed about turbo power/torque given boost levels = a challenge to find out, which is always fun.

I'll just stick with Northampton Motorsport from now on. Far better service, far more interested in the customer and even let you help out too.

I would personally (if you arent happy with one aspect) get the car rolling roaded again.

If you cant believe that the afr was ok, then why believe anything else.

Go and get another rolling road done, this time with full results and readings.

Ross

You could get yourself an AFR gauge? and an EGT gauge, and a charge temps gauge, save going to the RR every time you change something!

You're right, I didn't get an AFR graph. I don't think anyone has had one from them. What I can say is that everyone who went to the last South Coast RR who had had a PT custom map was happy with their AFR plots.

I think you have a point 007.

As long as the car is running ok and not blowing up, then can u argue?

I personally would wanna know the afr, and want it shown on the graph.

Ross

Graph: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/welformed/15042008001.jpg

Hi,

Something doesn't match, if I have understood right. You wrote that you had peak boost of 1.4 - 1.5 bar and still your torque is "only" 267 lb-ft. I received the same or a little bit more with GT28RS and 1 bar boost. My EBC was dirty at that time and it didn't work at all, only GT28RS actuator (1 bar) was controlling the boost level. My power in that RR was 280 bhp / 5900 rpm. So your 301 bhp in near 7000 rpm would speak to that, that there has been some 1 bar boost near peak power.

An other thing, which I have learned is that OE airfilter housing is very restrictive in RR. With that same GT28RS I could see 1.6 bar / 6000 rpm on street, but in RR I never got any more than 1.3 bar / 6000 rpm. The panel filter doesn't flow enough for high power.

OE SMIC will give you very high intake temperatures, in my friends Coupe with GT28R turbo we measured as high as 72 degC intake temperatures after short accelerations and in that point the ECU will go in safe mode.

I agree with the others that you should take an other RR to be sure, before you pay any extra costs for nothing or you can point your money exactly to the right things.

- Jari -

The shape looks ok... but i reckon its what flea has mentioned. Restrictions are holding back the power.

Ross

This is what I mean. The torque curve follows the boost basically, they both tail off at a similar rate and regardless of anything short of really bad airflow (K&N panel filter btw, not the std one! And which is wasn't as I only gained 12Bhp by having no airfilter at all, for which this is that graph I believe) I'd expect this turbo to hold boost much better.

So what boost were u running redline?

U had a compression test done?

Ross

having run a GT2871R for the last 50,000 miles and had rather more mapping sessions than I'd like wifey to find out about, Id say the Welformed's problems are threefold.

1) intake - the standard airbox is restrictive
2) exhaust - if you have a 2.75" downpipe, I'm guessing you also have a V-Band fitment (which is about 2.25" - no bigger than a stock downpipe)
3) Boost control - ISTR that you have a manual boost controller - you REALLY need an "intelligent" controller that will hold boost - a bleed valve will always be bleeding pressure - great in the midrange, but wasteful after about 4,500 - 5,000. If you have a PRV, I'd suspect that its sticking.

For what its worth, my boost also tails off - I'm getting about 1.3 - 1.4 bar at the redline - fairly sure the engine would handle more, but I'm happy with the safety measure.

Don't worry too much about the torque figure - the turbo is built for top end rush, rather than mid range grunt.

Cheers Nigel.

1 & 3 I expected before I went, tho I wasn't expecting the PRV setup to bleed off so much boost. Sometimes it seemed that even if I set 1.5bar it would bleed off to 1bar asap - almost like it was just overboost, but it does hold more boost to the redline now. As you say, I am quite happy for boost to tail off as I approach the redline purely for safety reasons.

Not sure about the v-band. tbh before this post I hadn't even heard of it! Is this is the bit that attaches directly to the turbo flange before the main exhaust? How can I check without taking bits off? Rog at PowerFiat told me what I had, but I forget already!

The custom downpipe was by powerflow, but probably most significantly, was fitted when the std turbo was there. So I'm guessing it will be whatever the std turbo would require. Er... what is that?

I'm 95% certain you have a v-band adapter. That's not so bad, I was running 360-370bhp on the same exhaust setup with my old RS. If you can sort out your induction and boost control you should see some good gains.

OK - that confirms it - you have a V-Band (yes, its the bit that joins the turbo to the downpipe).

The V-Band is actually good for towque, as it creates backpressure. However, its bad for top-end flow.

Your turbo is capable of flowing much more gas, but it will only flow what the most restrictive part of the exhaust is capable of flowing.

Thinking about it, you should be careful, as backpressure will give very high EGTs, which will kill your ringlands very quickly.

Conversion to a 3" H&S downpipe won't be too expensive, as you'll offset the cost by selling the 5-stud to V-Band adapter (should get £120 - £150 - maybe more) and the 2.75" DP - net spend should be less than £100

Or jump in on the blueflame group buy if it goes ahead, you'd probably end up with more money and a better exhaust setup

So a DP you can change the flange on the turbo, or should it be an internmediate that fits with the current?

It's more money. A progressive mod for after the summer then, except the airbox. I might have to sort that one out anyway.

I'd rather stick with the powerflow as it sounds sweet as.

you need a downpipe with a five-stud flange - this will bolt straight onto your turbo without any form of restrictive adapter.

My H&S DP cost about £300 - not sure what the RRP is now, but lets assume £350 - you should be able to sell your adapter for £150 and your 2.75" DP for about £100 - a net spend of about £100 will see one of your fundamental issues resolved - what are you waiting for? get them advertised

And I have a K & N Induction Cone and clamps for sale. All you'd need to add is a length of 76mm pipe - that'd be your induction sorted.

H&S downpipe £300, blueflame downpipe (if group buy goes ahead).... £125?

Heh and in come the offers from the anti-vultures!

I have no idea if 5-stud DP is going to fit on my Powerflow. This is a complete system so I'm sure it's going to involve some 'specialist' cutting and welding... Might check out the GB though!

Couldn't I just drill a hole in my current DP? I like that as a cheap option, especially if it adds to the noise level!