0 registered members (),
277
guests, and 2
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums69
Topics113,621
Posts1,341,296
Members1,807
|
Most Online731 Jan 14th, 2020
|
|
|
Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
#634785
23/06/2008 18:50
23/06/2008 18:50
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787 Midlands
ash_p
OP
Club member 2001
|
OP
Club member 2001
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
|
Hi, me and Paul20vturbo went to powerstation today to have a power run, fueling check and det cans. Mine was the first one on, i wasn't sure how it would do as my gearbox is nearly gone and the noises it was making down to powerstation was horrible (high pitched humming and rumbling very very loud, not wheel bearings) My spec is- gt28rsr,sip,apexi,h&s downpipe,decat,2.25" cat back,fmic and gtec2. On my first run he said he heard abit of det at 5800rpm but then went after that (he thinks the ecu pulled the ignition back for afew seconds). The fueling was at 0.8 lambda all the way to redline which he said is spot on ( i saw this with my own eyes too ) On the second run he said it felt abit hesitant and around 5k the widget flashed [/b]THROTTLE POT FAILURE[b] Now it won't go off, he thinks that could effect my readings as at 5800 i get a big dip in my graph. Has anyone had this fault code before or know what it means. Anyway on my first run i got a good result 319.4bhp and 273.4 ibft torque at 1.35bar. Heres my pic of the graph- http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h227/YellowAshes/P230608_164701.jpgPaul's car stats are- t28 Hybrid,pro alloy fmic,k&n panel filter, decat, blueflame cat back. His first run at 1.25 bar was good, nice flowing graph he made- 288.0bhp and 243.8 ibft On his second run he upped the boost to 1.3bar but it only made 2bhp difference. Heres the pic of pauls 2nd run http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h227/YellowAshes/P230608_1646.jpgWhat do you all think of the results Also there did a graph with a comparison of both cars- http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h227/YellowAshes/P230608_164702.jpg
Last edited by ash_p; 23/06/2008 18:51.
335bhp gt28rsr
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: ash_p]
#634872
23/06/2008 21:49
23/06/2008 21:49
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,671 Newport,south wales
Benny
My life on the forum
|
My life on the forum
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,671
Newport,south wales
|
Do you know why the drag is high as its the same on mine. I personally dont think its all down to the chip Ben
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: Benny]
#634884
23/06/2008 22:03
23/06/2008 22:03
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787 Midlands
ash_p
OP
Club member 2001
|
OP
Club member 2001
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
|
I am not sure why the drag is high, my gearbox has gone on mine and making horrendous noises so that might be why on mine. The rollers is used for lots of tuning including by Subaru themselves so i would have thought it is quite accurate. ther rollers might have high drag for some reason, but i am happy that it got 319bhp (even if it is really about 300bhp) can tell everyone that. Your chip has alot more advance then mine so will give more power, but i got very slight det at 5800rpm.
Last edited by ash_p; 23/06/2008 22:04.
335bhp gt28rsr
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: ash_p]
#634887
23/06/2008 22:10
23/06/2008 22:10
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 991 Drakelow
Jamiepm
Club member 1989
|
Club member 1989
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 991
Drakelow
|
you need my full fat exhaust system to keep the torque building to give you more power
Jamie
She's alive!
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: ash_p]
#634900
23/06/2008 22:19
23/06/2008 22:19
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,671 Newport,south wales
Benny
My life on the forum
|
My life on the forum
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,671
Newport,south wales
|
I am not sure why the drag is high, my gearbox has gone on mine and making horrendous noises so that might be why on mine. The rollers is used for lots of tuning including by Subaru themselves so i would have thought it is quite accurate. ther rollers might have high drag for some reason, but i am happy that it got 319bhp (even if it is really about 300bhp) can tell everyone that. Your chip has alot more advance then mine so will give more power, but i got very slight det at 5800rpm. Same here even if mine is really 330bhp, but its all about the torque Agree with Jamie,you need a bigger exhaust Ben
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: Benny]
#634935
23/06/2008 22:44
23/06/2008 22:44
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787 Midlands
ash_p
OP
Club member 2001
|
OP
Club member 2001
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
|
I think jamie wants me to have his its a very nice exhaust but abit to loud for me. I am not sure why i have that dip at 5800, is it the chip or the throttle pot failure(think maf maxed out) Ash
335bhp gt28rsr
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: ash_p]
#634952
23/06/2008 22:59
23/06/2008 22:59
|
MattW
Unregistered
|
MattW
Unregistered
|
I am not sure why i have that dip at 5800, is it the chip or the throttle pot failure(think maf maxed out)
Ash If youre getting a bit of det at 5800, maybe it's backing off?
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: nick_d]
#635131
24/06/2008 10:20
24/06/2008 10:20
|
h2ypr
Unregistered
|
h2ypr
Unregistered
|
Good results mate.
I'd defo find out what that problem is, esp with that size of dip.
Someone on here will know. Post in general maintainance, as some people dont come in here.
Ross
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: ash_p]
#635508
24/06/2008 21:18
24/06/2008 21:18
|
Webbo
Unregistered
|
Webbo
Unregistered
|
Can you get better scans pls? It's a bit of a pain looking at them like this.
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: ash_p]
#635622
24/06/2008 23:25
24/06/2008 23:25
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,000 Costa Del Sawley
Paul_V
Competition Level
|
Competition Level
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,000
Costa Del Sawley
|
Very impressive ash. My nephew said he spotted you and jamie ripping about in sawley last week and commented on how well it went/sounded. You must be chuffed with your R/R results.....enjoy
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: Paul_V]
#635643
24/06/2008 23:50
24/06/2008 23:50
|
paul20vturbo
Unregistered
|
paul20vturbo
Unregistered
|
paul_v bet your glad u havn't done a compare with ash then?. Mines running 50bhp more than it did so very happy with the results. Made for than the around 270bhp you normal get with this setup. Ash also made a big improvement on power so both had a good day. Only problem is dnt understand how they work out power drag and wheel power
paul
Last edited by paul20vturbo; 24/06/2008 23:54.
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: ]
#635658
25/06/2008 00:20
25/06/2008 00:20
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787 Midlands
ash_p
OP
Club member 2001
|
OP
Club member 2001
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
|
Thanks paul, yeh me and jamie was trying to find my noise, which is now my gearbox . Will be round jamies tomorrow taking his gearbox out I wasn't giving it much when your nephew saw me due to the noise i had, it was only on low boost its very quick when i can open it up. I did see your car on your drive looking very nice and shinny. Ash
Last edited by ash_p; 25/06/2008 00:21.
335bhp gt28rsr
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: ash_p]
#635812
25/06/2008 12:48
25/06/2008 12:48
|
paulminize
Unregistered
|
paulminize
Unregistered
|
Hi results look good, can't wait until mine is putting those sort of figures out!
Anyway a quick question: How much did they charge for runs?
I was going to go last saturday with some people off here but my car was being repaired at motormech so I couldnt make it, but I would stil like to go as I am at the 'ring in 3 weeks!
Cheers
Paul
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: Freddan72]
#635906
25/06/2008 15:31
25/06/2008 15:31
|
sediciRich
Unregistered
|
sediciRich
Unregistered
|
26 % transmission loss is again fiction. Use the estimation wheel power plus 10 divide by .9 = nearer 270 bhp approx 15% trans loss. Ambient factors look a little odd, inlet wont be ambient or below it for sure thats inflating things a bit, whats oil temp about 22deg c?
Rich
Last edited by sediciRich; 25/06/2008 15:36.
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: Flea]
#635941
25/06/2008 17:07
25/06/2008 17:07
|
TurboJ
Unregistered
|
TurboJ
Unregistered
|
Hold on 319BHP but only 234 WBHP . For 319BHP you should have nearer to 280 WBHP. I smell pub figures If i go there i should make 400BHP
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: Flea]
#635984
25/06/2008 18:20
25/06/2008 18:20
|
TurboJ
Unregistered
|
TurboJ
Unregistered
|
I have the same spec except for light headwork and mapping I got 327BHP @ 1.2 Bar that's 281WBHP so something is wrong??
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: ]
#636071
25/06/2008 21:58
25/06/2008 21:58
|
paul20vturbo
Unregistered
|
paul20vturbo
Unregistered
|
I think the power figures are about right but the power drag and power to the wheels seems totally wrong. I no for a fact my toe in is fine it had the tracking done 2 weeks ago. Also ive been on the rollers at noble motorsport with a totally standard car and made 237bhp so theres nothing wrong with my engine. And ash's car had good power for this setup as per what flea said. My torque does seem low would it be my standard down pipe?. I did make more torque this time tho paul
Last edited by paul20vturbo; 25/06/2008 22:06.
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: Freddan72]
#636139
25/06/2008 23:50
25/06/2008 23:50
|
paul20vturbo
Unregistered
|
paul20vturbo
Unregistered
|
yep its looks that way. Both cars feel quick now and im sure mine feels quicker than 207bhp at the wheels. I am aware that they dont no the power at the flywheel. I do no for a fact that mine is allot quicker than a standard coupe
paul
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: ]
#636163
26/06/2008 00:28
26/06/2008 00:28
|
TurboJ
Unregistered
|
TurboJ
Unregistered
|
The dyno is correct/calibrated as the power and torque cross at 5252rpm.
The wheel figure is always correct as that is what the dyno actually measures.
The flywheel figure is calculated and has been done incorrectly. Take the car to PT and a bet you get less to me 234 wbhp = 280 BHP.
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but that dyno is giving you wrong information.
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: ]
#636248
26/06/2008 10:02
26/06/2008 10:02
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
|
Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
|
I'm amazed at how often this comes up The wheel power on a MAHA dyno is ALWAYS lower... ALWAYS. This is simply a product of their technology, nothing else. The MAHA is pretty much the most expensive dyno available used by Porsche and Audi as their OFFICIAL dyno in house. There have been 100+ coupes run at Powerstation including individual power runs to full rolling road days. Nobody, and I repeat nobody has ever had a "bad" reading there. That includes standard cars and modified cars such as: Scooby - 227bhp & 222lbs/ft (171 @ wheels) - STANDARD Jimbo - 278bhp & 268lbs/ft - SUSPERSPOOL Nobby - 305bhp & 285/lbs/ft (232 @ wheels) - GT28RSR Nigel - 302bhp & 245lbs/ft - GT28R Flea - 360bhp & 323lbs/ft (287 @ wheels) - GT28RS 0.86 _Tom_ - 249bhp & 208lbs/ft (179 @ wheels) STANDARD CLIO V6 The list goes on... I have run there many times especially with my old 28RS setup. I was consistently making 350-360bhp at Powerstation and 350-360bhp at PTS, Luton. The FACT is wheel power cannot be compared between dynos. PT use a Dastek dyno which reads VERY high wheel power. You could argue that Dastek inflate the wheel power considerably with silly low transmission losses. My own example: PT (Dastek) - 423bhp & 368lbs/ft (393 @ wheels) Powerstation (MAHA) - 480bhp & 367lbs/ft (358 @ wheels) So at PT I get 35bhp MORE at the wheels with ONLY 7% transmission losses which is pretty much IMPOSSIBLE!!! I like both dynos but to say one is right and one is wrong when they are BOTH as right/wrong as each other If Ash went to PT then he would get a HIGHER wheel power guaranteed, that is simply how Dastek dynos work. I have spoken at length with the designer of the Dastek dyno and believe me he has a lot of respect for the MAHA dyno except for the fact it's pretty much twice the price! Look at the facts and figures I have mentioned, and no amount of hearsay or speculation changes that.
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: Freddan72]
#636286
26/06/2008 11:29
26/06/2008 11:29
|
Webbo
Unregistered
|
Webbo
Unregistered
|
The only thing you can reliably go on is the WBHP. Whose dyno is calibrated right is the only question worth asking here.
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: ]
#636569
26/06/2008 20:11
26/06/2008 20:11
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787 Midlands
ash_p
OP
Club member 2001
|
OP
Club member 2001
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 787
Midlands
|
Thanks for the input Flea, my engine has 155psi on all 5 cylinders as was checked by myself using snap on gear afew months ago. The engine is running sweet and feels very quick (wish my gearbox was the same ) I was expecting around 300bhp mark as that's what everyone seems to get and i got all the correct mods before the dyno (been getting right mods for over a year now and been waiting to up the boost) The bloke that did the test said both cars seemed very well modded and couldn't believe how well they performed compared to the Subaru's they do I had mine rolling roaded at noble motorsport in January on a hybrid with cat and small intercooler and it made 251bhp at 1.2bar, after doing these extra mods ( gt28rsr, decat, apexi, bigger intercooler) the car is lots faster i can feel the difference at least 40/50bhp. Leighton do you know why my power dips off at 5800 for abit then starts to rise again? Ash
335bhp gt28rsr
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: Flea]
#636703
26/06/2008 22:40
26/06/2008 22:40
|
sediciRich
Unregistered
|
sediciRich
Unregistered
|
Don't worry Ash, the MAHA dyno that Powerstation use is very good. No matter what Rich says the torque and bhp figures are pretty much spot on leighton I've not spoken with dastek but perhaps you can explain for all of why they produce such odd results, between the equipment one of them must be wrong! They only have to measure torque, please enlighten me. Its true about comparisons, do all the tuning on one RR. No FWD transmission losses 20% power think about the logic all that energy has to go somewhere, and you can guess the oil temperature increase from it specific heat capacity. Was matey at dastek trying to sell you a RR of course he's going to tell you what you want to hear! Rich
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: Flea]
#637254
27/06/2008 21:38
27/06/2008 21:38
|
TurboJ
Unregistered
|
TurboJ
Unregistered
|
All this doesn’t really explain why there is such a big difference between dynos. What we can all agree on is that the torque measurement is correct.
Since BHP is a measurement of torque against engine speed. In your example:
PT (Dastek) - 423bhp & 368lbs/ft (393 @ wheels) Powerstation (MAHA) - 480bhp & 367lbs/ft (358 @ wheels
You both have the same ft-lb but at what rpm is this peak power for each?
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: ]
#637269
27/06/2008 22:07
27/06/2008 22:07
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
|
Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
|
The same engine will vary peak torque and at different rpms based on a number of variables i.e. boost, inlet temps, fuel, load, heat soak. Even on the same dyno you will get variations from day to day and month to month because the environment is very fluid. You only have to watch a car do 3,4,5,6 power runs and it will slowly loose power and come in later due to the changing conditions... the dyno is the same. The above does explain the difference between dynos, they load the car differently via the actual hardware used. You have different rollers, size and mass, different dyno brakes from eddy current to water, different contact patches and friction, different cooling capability and finally different software algorithms to interpret the data... that's a lot of variations. If you want to start picking results apart then you have to look at all the variables behind it. DoctorFrag knew how to play the game well He had his car mapped at PTS a few times which invariably ment 20+ power runs on the dyno. While this is a requirement for mapping the AFR and timing it doesn't do the power figures any favours. So he would leave the car on the rollers and then first thing in the morning when the car and dyno room was cool as a cucumber fire it up and do a power run. That was good for an extra 10-15lbs/ft and 10-20bhp from the day before... nothing has changed on the dyno, just the conditions When I ran at Powerstation and made 480bhp it was 0c, I rolled up from cruising on the motorway and straight into the dyno room for an ice cold power run. We have all experienced the benefits of cold air on the winter nights where the car justs goes so much better, well you can measure that too. Cold air and a cool engine does wonders for turbo efficiency and combustion.
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: Flea]
#637274
27/06/2008 22:37
27/06/2008 22:37
|
TurboJ
Unregistered
|
TurboJ
Unregistered
|
I'm not being that picky I'm just curious as there is a big difference to say 423BHP then say 480BHP? When people ask you 'what you running' what you gonna say? Do you see what I mean?
5 degrees air temp is 1% power. A hotter engine actually produces more power.
Why don't you post your PT dyno so I can compare it with the power station one?
|
|
|
Re: Powerstation rolling road today (x2 coupes)
[Re: Flea]
#641580
05/07/2008 17:07
05/07/2008 17:07
|
TurboJ
Unregistered
|
TurboJ
Unregistered
|
I was updating my hall of fame results and then i stumbled on this. I have a new question. Why have you mixed your dyno results? In the hall of fame http://www.online-presence.co.uk/_coupe/you have put your BHP at 480 your WBHP at 393 and your ft/lb at 368. When in this thread you have got these results: PT (Dastek) - 423bhp & 368lbs/ft (393 @ wheels) Powerstation (MAHA) - 480bhp & 367lbs/ft (358 @ wheels Now that is blatant lying because you know you cannot mixed two different dyno results together to suit you. So all this technical talk above means nothing in your case as your figures are now false. Would you care to explain this?
|
|
|
|