Nigel - how exactly do you fit the camber gauge to the car? Magnet onto the brake disc with the wheel still on?

I'm just confused as to how you might do it WITHOUT checking, jacking, removing the wheel, adjusting, refitting wheel, jack down and check again.

Ah... suppose you could check the camber of the car with the wheel on, jack up and remove wheel, check it again and subtract the difference when you make any adjustments.

I need to get out more..........

Nobbster, It needs to be done with the front suspension fully loaded with the weight of the car.

A simple way is to support the car under the ends of the wishbones, I used some wood to protect the wishbones and my axel stands, remove the wheels and put the camber gauge on the disc. That way its easy to adjust the camber without having to fight the wheel and makes for a more accurate setting.

Nobby - you've got it - process is as follows (Let's assume for this exercise that the wheels are at the standard 0.5 degrees negative , and we want 1.5 degrees negative):

1) Measure camber of wheels with the car on the ground
2) Turn the car round and measure again, in case the ground isn't level
3) write down existing camber settings
4) average the measurement between the two measurements at 1) & 2) above if they are different
5) jack up the car, take the wheels off
6) remove the hub top mount bolt and fit the camber bolts
7) loosen the bottom hub bolt so the hub can move in the suspension strut
8) locate the camber gauge on the hub - it fits over the centre nut and is held on with fairly strong magnets - it will stay on unless its knocked)
9) measure the camber
10) use the camber bolt to dial in 1 degree more negative camber than the current reading (which will probably be two or three degrees positive with the car in the air)
11) repeat steps 6) to 10) for the other front wheel
12) refit wheels, put the car back on the round and move it backwards and forwards to settle the suspension
13) measure camber (and turn the car around and re-measure if steps 1) & 2) above showed the ground isn't perfectly level
14) go for a drive, but be careful at your first corner, as you will almost certainly turn more than you thought you would - the difference caused by 1 degree is amazing - I love it

bloody hell

I've just been and got my tracking checked after setting the camber to 1.5 degrees negative

it was toeing in by 10mm (supposed to me 2mm toe out)

tyres were well scrubbed - just as well they were already worn out, as the last week of driving has finished them off

However, I now have great turn-in AND it now feels planted again

Told you it would sort it.

As you would expect, the turn in with 10mm toe in was quite sharp - now its back to the factory settings, its a little less pointy - I wouldn't mind trying 1.75 degrees camber, but I have a feeling the camber bolts will only give 1.5

Still, its miles better than it was, so I'm a happy bunny

Not sure how stable it would be in a straight line with nearly 2 degs camber, it would be a handful

Looking forward to you doing a handling event now just to see if running extra camber really makes the difference. I think it improves turn in and massively reduces turn in understeer but I still think the heavy front end of the coupe will wash out on a long high speed corner once all the weight has shifted onto the outside wheel.

When you dial in more camber you are also going to increase the toe in, so what you have to do is set the camber you want first.

I can now get up to 2.5 negative camber with using a bolt for adjustment.

The car is not setup right yet (corner weighting and ride height have all been done to death). But I'm not far away now....then all I have to do is play with the damping settings.

So to re-cap if i want to run 1.2 negative camber the toe in should be?

It should be as standard. But if you dont like the way that feels then you can have a fiddle with it.

I'm going to have a play with Toe out - 1/2 degree or so should be fine for starters.

standard being 2mm

Purchased some bolts from Nigel's e-bay link and had them fitted at Motormech on Friday - initial thoughts below (been taking it easy due to the weather and because its not properly tracked yet)

The initial turn in has improved massively, it feels like the car responds quicker and there is no hint of understeer

Through the corner the car feels totally planted and very pointy - it just goes where you want it to and already feels very precise (which will be even better come the weekend when its tracked properly)

In a straight line the car feels fine, with no tendency to follow imperfections in the road

My car's handling was good before, but these have made a significant improvement - for the cost, this has to be a 100% recommended improvement for anyone running a modified suspension set up

My setup - strut brace, Nigel lower brace, eibach/bilstein combo and a whiteline rear ARB. All my suspension components were refreshed less than two years ago.

Really tempted to get this done. Just wondering guys.. Each time i get the toe settings done, would the cambers need to be adjusted again?

Nice to see more people discovering the camberbolts!
Probably the most significant mod after lowering, especially since the camber seems to go positive in doing so.
I use -1mm toe-in from recommendation that it would tramline too much with lots of camber + toe-out. Seems to work fine but I should try 0mm toe-in I think.

No, the camber change the toe-in, but not the other way! if you see what I mean. So you do have to change toe-in as you change the camber.

Good to know that. What about when suspension components such as topmounts are replaced? I know that effects the toe settings but does the camber change in anyway?

That entirely depends on what top mount you use - but any will makes the settings deviate.

Thanks for that. Just got my bolts ordered

When you lower the car you add negative camber as the wishbone angle changes.

With a low car you will find that with the extra camber it will turn in sharply, but the car will then 'flop' onto the outside front wheel as the wishbone can't compensate and the shock has to do all the work. With a car on standard suspension I would think this would be very noticeable.

Have you started playing around yet Suba?

How do you dial in castor on the top mounts then?

Are they aftermarket items or can you do it with the standard jobs?

Also, how do you guage how much you've dialled in and how much would you want?

Sorry for all the questions but i'm happy with the engine now so i'm going to pick on the suspension- on the cheap

That's odd, I got positive camber? (from std -0.5 or what it is)

I'll be posting up soon - see my other thread on gaz, I posted on it this morning.

BTW - the handling stuff that I have been doing has not been cheap, I could have built a solid 450bhp engine for the same money I have spent so far.

Imagine the wishbone sits level with the car attached to one end amd the wheel to the other. If you lower the car end then the wishbone points upwards if you look along it from the car side, this makes the top of the wheel point inwards, hence negative camber, the greater the angle then the more negative camber.

Does that mean that with a lowered car (Eibach+Bilsteins), the camber should be more than -1.2?

Oh I know, I'm guessing (hoping?) it will be a lot cheaper in a few months to a year when it's all tried and tested kit though Well done for all the hard work though, I hope you get the set-up you want/ deserve

I never was all that happy with the billy eibach kit though. That GB kit sounds very tasty indeed

???? are you asking if with that setup the camber will rest at -1.2 without any adjustment? If so then the answer is no.

When I've finally got it setup right you're welcome to try it out and see what you think...

No i'm asking if -1.2 would be a good figure to go for as a balance between bite and tyre wear considering the car has been lowered.

Now there's an offer I may well take you up on

Something else I found interesting in your GB thread was the reference BMS made to the roll centre of the coop being low enough as standard. I've done a little research and found various articles on the subject but I require a more 'reader friendly' explanation

I read something about the difference between centre of gravity and roll centre being important and that this gap gets bigger as you lower a car, but it went all fuzzy there...
Here are a few bits I need clarification on;

1. Why is it a bad thing if it is too low and what effect does it have on the handling?

2. Can this new suspension set-up skirt around this problem by only dropping the car 20mm?