The problem with the car orignally was the wastegate not opening at all, or staying open all the time, it wasn't a chip problem but a hardware problem.

Ok thanks
Anyway it is a strange problem

Martijn: Nothing to worry about. The AFR of 10:1 is perfectly normal for a standard 16VT. If you ever get to look at the maps you'll see that The 16VT runs very rich and very retarded ignition as standard.

I have a much bigger turbo than standard running 1 bar of boost and I actually removed fuel and added igntion timing!

Just out of interest, what was your bhp at the wheels?

Hi mate,

thanks for the post and message! Im on holiday in the us right now, but i believe that my bhp at wheels was around 140.
Ill install dink chip+ fmic when im back + running a little more boost by then. I will post the next graph on here then!

what power does yours make?

I haven't had it dyno'd yet but it should be about 250bhp.

Alright, the modification list so far:


* Blitz SBC-R dual solenoid boost controller (four settings: 0.8/1.0/1.15/1.35 bar)
* Dink performance chip (www.lanciahf.eu)
* Cold sparkplugs
* Large front mount intercooler
* 2,5" full stainless steel exhaust system, race cat.
* Original airbox, modified with BMC race panel filter.
* Modified wiring to the fuel pump for better voltage
* Forge GT dumpvalve
* Balance shafts locked/belt removed.

I will be going to the dyno in 30 mins, will make it run on 1.15 and 1.35 bar boost with standard turbo. I tend to run 1.15 on the road, and just do a 1.35 run to see what it has over 1.15.

So..more info to come later today when i am back!

Alright, these are the, still dissapointing, results!

At 1.15 bar: 206 bhp
At 1.35 bar: 209 bhp

torque:

At 1.15 bar: 303 nm
At 1.35 bar: 321 nm

Graphs:




Comments from the RR guy

*fuelling is fine, a little rich
*Turbo takes very long to spool up!!!

Im not really satisfied on this. Must say i was hoping for at least 230 bhp. Must also say that there was a guy with a sierra cosworth hitting 275 bhp here, and hitting 302 at a different dyno yesterday..

well, from what I can tell this is the same dyno you used to start this thread so based on that I the same dyno you have gone from 170bhp 244nm to 206bhp/300nm

that is 36bhp up and 60nm since the last run

Please right a list of what has changed between this 2 runs.

I agree wheel power still seems low but dyno's do vary quite a bit, do you have a feel for how this one reads? based on the cosworth guy that is 10% lower which would take you to 230bhp which is still a bit low but within the rnage of 230-250bhp on stage 1 mods.

Dyno's are all about comparsion and you are heading in the right direction, picking up 35bhp is good

As for spool, it seems to be around 3800rpm which is a bit slow for a standard turbo, below is my boost graph and boost hits by 3600rpm

Again could be the cat making extra back pressure as I don't run one.



It would seem that the turbo is being a bit lazy, time for an upgrade

My last run was on 0.8 bar.

Addons since last run:

Dink chip
cold spark plugs
higher boost (1.15 and 1.35)
FMIC

what i am thinking of:
With my blitz i can set up the max boost, but i think also how fast the boost comes in. This might be adjustable to a faster rating, so the boost kicks in faster - earlier RPM's.
But: would this really make such a difference in top end power?

Whats the boost rate set to at the moment (GAIN)

That can make a massive difference, I run about 18-20 from memory but that is Greddy not blitz so not sure they rate the same way?

So really between the runs it is just the chip and boost, I think 35bhp is pretty good, The plugs and FMIC are really more safety things for cooler inlet temps and combustion temps

The GAIN was set to 18.

As i can read for blitz, this is what the manual say's:

Start with a setting of 5 and increase this step by step during testing. A value between 20 and 30 for single turbos and 5 - 15 for twin turbo's or sequential systems is very common.

So, 18 might be a bit low. I will test it tomorow starting with 20, and increasing from there until the boost rise's too fast for my liking/overboosting too much.

Power wise, best might be to overboost to 1.35 for a second or 2 for the torque, then falling back into 1.15. (scramble boost). I don't know how this works yet (how to set it up right) so i will firt find a decent GAIN setting.

Yeah, I should have added my gain is quite low as I have a big compressor and to stop the boost creeping I had to low it a bit.

the OE 16vt turbo is small by comparsion so creep in the higher revs won't be a problem, try upping it

the Intake likely isn't helping either (standard airbox) get a SIP on there now you have the FMIC.

The only other thing I can think os a slightly open watergate, I mention it as I rememeber you had alot of wastegate issues when you first brought the car (ie slightly open all the time)

Martijn why didn't you fine tune the EBC at the RR? It must be the best and easiest way to tune an EBC. If you do it on the street you have other cars etc to think of.

And why don't you have a boost curve on the print out?

Hi Freddan,

they didnt gave me a boost curve, i dont think that it was measured. Also i didnt think of the spool up time @ the dynojet center. These guys also are not enthousiast or willing to support you in any way, if you dont ask, they dont talk. I will go to a different center next time for sure.

Ill look at the spool up GAIN later tonight, see what it does to the car. Yet i dont think that it will add 30-40 bhp, will it?

no - the gain setting won't give you much more power - it simply affects the rate at which the turbo is allowed to spool up - a high gain setting will allow it to spool up quickly

On my big turbo, I have gain settings of between 8 and 15 - any more than that and it spools up too quickly and breaks traction, as well as feeling very "sudden" - I prefer a more progressive build-up of power.

Perhaps this is why my clutch and tyres last longer than other owners with less power

Okay Nigel, that makes sence. But right now, the turbo comes in real late, it starts building up boost around 2800, but obtains full boost around 3.700-4.000

i think this could be restrictive too:




It originally was a twin exit pipe, now turned into one exit. Probably not 30-40bhp as well, but it can't hurt to open that hole again.

Have you searched for boost or exhaust leaks?

What should i feel when i have a boost leak? One of my intercoolerpipes leaked, which made the boost not build up higher than 0.4 bar. this was fixed before the dyno run.


I do think that the manifold-cylinder head gasket leaks a very very little, i feel some air blowing out right there, but maybe not enough to blow out a candle.

not enough to blow out a candle at idle, it will way, way worse under boost pressure - exhasut gas pressure at 1 bar boost could be 2 bar in the exhasut manifold (that is a guess but it is higher than the intake side) and at that pressure the leak should be alot worse.

Talk to trevor on here (nyssa) and get a spesso one

I will look into the leaking later today.
I have sent you this through PM Saint, but i post it on here as well to see if maybe somebody else can come up with something:


*I played with the GAIN setting up to 35, no difference in spool-up time
*Sometimes the boost wont go higher than between 0,3-0,6 bar, or reach 1 bar +- after 5.000 rpm.
*The boost behaviour differs, and the longer i drive (i did around 80 km/s of testing) the worse it became. Sometimes it does spool up (but still late like on the dyno) sometimes it doesn't spool up to the desired boost lvl but much lower.
Sometimes it keeps at 0,5 bar, sometimes when going to 1bar+ in 3rd gear, and i shift to fourth it is stuck at 0,5 bar for a second or 2, then slowly builds up towards 1 bar.

It does smell different too, like a burned smell of oil. I didnt actually see smoke, tho.

I think your turbo or the the wastegate is f.u.c.k.e.d. . Have you checked it?

What boost pressure do you see when the EBC is switched off?

I think that Saint has a point that the leak @ manifold gasket can be larger when on boost. I want this repaired anyway, so a new gasket for the manifold will be ordered soon.

Freddan, what checks/tests can i do to see if the turbo-wastegate is f* ? for the wastegate, move the arm and see if the wastegate flap can move freely?

Thanks everyone for thinking with me!

The photo you sent is a leak on the downstream side of the turbo (turbo to downpipe) so that won't effect performance too much - I thought the leak you mentioned was between the head and the turbo.

I saying that a exhaust leak in he engine bay isn't the best, for 1 the fumes could come into the cabin, or the leak could heat up something it shouldn't and melt it etc - EGT can get up to 900c

The leak i mentioned is between the cylinder head and exhaust manifold, so manifold gasket.

Exhaust leak should be fixed anyway, i gave a call to the RR company this morning, and discribing my *symptons* they said it is probably the turbo on its way out. If there is a way to test this before spending a fortune, could somebody post that up please?

Yes move the actuator arm and see if the flap is moving. One other way to check wastegate is to remove hose from actuator. But be very careful, go easy on the gas pedal. If your wg is good the boost pressure will rise really fast. So be careful
If the boost pressure doesn't rise fast you have a wastegate problem.

Check for axial play: get hold of the compressor wheel and move it in/out. You should have very little play.

Good luck!

Ok: I have done the following:

*Drive w/o Blitz on, to see if the problem is within the Blitz: no result
*disconnect the hose from the blitz, which should make the boost rise very quickly to 1.5 bar: no result
*check if the actuator arm is still connected the to wastegate flap: it is.

Then i tried to move the arm(while standing in front of the engine bay), but it is stuck and i cant move it. I didnt jack the car up, i will do that tomorow night and get under it to try to move the flap itself.

What im thinking is that the wastegate might be like half open, so it can't build up proper boost. Yesterday it sometimes hesitated to give good boost, right now i cant even reach 1 bar. It just very slowly crawls up to 0.6-0.7 bar.

Hi Martijn.

Well a gain of 30 bhp is a great result - shame it currently only takes it to standard power!

The actuator should be very difficult to move by hand. The spring in the wastegate is very strong.

You say you disconnected the actuator from the blitz and just had the pipe open to atmoshpere, and yet it only reached 0.7 bar? That's definitly not right then.

Unfortunately the turbo is in such a position that it's not possible to check the wastegate flapper without taking the turbo out.

Hi Kj16v,

I had a wastegate issue before: the arm was not connected to the flapper. When it was like this, i could easily twist the flap from open to closed. Perhaps when i disconnect my actuator arm, i can check if its stuck or not?

Indeed with removing the hose from the actuator from the blitz it still would not change the behaviour: still no fast boost rising and a max boost around 0.7 bar.

I moved the arm of the actuator a bit, it indeed is very hard to move due to the spring.

Later when i was standing at a traffic light, some smoke was coming from my exhaust. Not a very thick smoke, and not a real lot but it was there. Im afraid the turbo is just on its way out, i will see if there is a specialist who can confirm this before removing it.

And... the story continues:

*I bought 2 new clamps today for the intercooler-hose connection, because i thought it might be leaking. After putting the new clamps on, i have removed the hose from the wastegate actuator and took the car for a spin:

It built up boost to 1.5 bar!

So, i put the hose back on, and everything worked fine, for 3 minutes.

After three minutes, the pressure fell back again and it was slowly building up boost to 0.7/0.8 bar again...

Anyone who can put me in the right direction here?