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Petrol quality #1638023
08/01/2020 11:40
08/01/2020 11:40
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 98
Bury st Edmunds, Suffolk.
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bayliss Offline OP
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Bury st Edmunds, Suffolk.
Noted the coupe should be run on 95 ron petrol or above that grade. I like to run mine on Shell or BP brand, my question is there any value or point in filling up with their highest grade fuel at the extra cost or stick with the regular and save the money ?

Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638025
08/01/2020 12:15
08/01/2020 12:15
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 839
Germany
neil_r Offline
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Germany
The quality of fuels in Europe is pretty well regulated. Car manufacturers test their cars on standard fuels. Most engines can run on slightly lower octane fuels but very few can make anything of a grade higher than they are set for. A huge proportion of people buy unbranded fuels from supermarkets which are supplied from the same nearest refinery as the branded fuel station down the road without problems. The only difference is the few drops of additives that each brand claims stops your engines from self-destructing.

There have been objective test done and none have conclusively shown any statistically relevant difference between fuels or putting high octane fuels in cars that are not set up to make use of them.

I have mainly used the the same supermarket petrol station for the last 20+ years and have two old cars that run very well, just like the newer cars. I don't notice any difference when I use Shell or any other known-brand fuel. For me, I only buy branded fuel when it is cheap or when there is no easy alternative. I get no benefit from the more expensive product.

Decent beer here is around 1€ max. a bottle but it is usually fairly boring. I'll happily pay 3 times that for a good bottle of IPA and there I can tell the difference. Same with wine - life is too short to drink rubbish but standard European fuels don't reduce the life of my engines by any degree I can appreciate, so I am happy to use it.

Last edited by neil_r; 08/01/2020 12:34.

1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638027
08/01/2020 13:13
08/01/2020 13:13
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,332
Lightwater, Surrey, UK
DaveG Offline
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Lightwater, Surrey, UK
Like neil_r said, it all comes from the same place. I work in the industry and there's no such thing as am ASDA (or Morrisons, Tesco, Sainsburys,...) oil refinery...


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638028
08/01/2020 13:29
08/01/2020 13:29
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 106
Behind a blue gate
clanger Offline
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Regards 95 vs 98, I run a full range of garden machinery both 2 stroke and 4 stroke all on carbs and on the occasion I have used 98 (because its all I had in the gerry can at the time, fuel strikes etc.) I feel an immediate improvement in the way the machine runs; chainsaws pick up faster rev out cleanly and run smoother, mowers just run better all round with more power when cutting long grass.

We have an old 1995 Fiat Panda that runs so much smoother on 98, my wife recognises the difference and thats saying something.

I too only use supermarket fuels.

Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638030
08/01/2020 15:56
08/01/2020 15:56
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 98
Bury st Edmunds, Suffolk.
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bayliss Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2019
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Bury st Edmunds, Suffolk.
Interesting replies, thanks guys.
Sounds like I may as well not concern. shelf over which brand of fuel, just fill up on price choice. As a side issue many years ago
it was said that the fuel brand JET, which was always cheaper than the big names, was akin to pee water!

Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638031
08/01/2020 16:26
08/01/2020 16:26
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 839
Germany
neil_r Offline
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Originally Posted by bayliss
... JET, which was always cheaper than the big names, was akin to pee water!


Interesting thought!

https://www.jetlocal.co.uk/jet-fuels/

Reading between the lines, their own fuels are lower in ethanol than those they sourced from other refineries. Maybe their pee water is now actually better than the competition's smile


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638032
08/01/2020 16:26
08/01/2020 16:26
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,332
Lightwater, Surrey, UK
DaveG Offline
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Interesting comments about the garden machinery, I don't think they have ECUs do they? As for making more power, the energy content of petrol and diesel is strangely enough not a specification, but there's a misconception that higher octane = more power = a better fuel in many ways, whereas the only way it is better is in the knock-resistance (the definition of octane), so that it can be used in higher compression engines or the timing adjusted so that the engine could in fact produce more power (if the ECU is able to do so).

As for Jet, that was Conoco's brand for a while, and I worked for a short while at the Conoco Humber refinery, often filling up on the way home at the Jet petrol station on the corner near the entrance. I know that their petrol was different from most other refineries in the UK since it contained several components that were derived from the coker units, and being highly aromatic, would likely have produced a different, perhaps more strongly smelling petrol?


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Petrol quality [Re: clanger] #1638033
08/01/2020 16:49
08/01/2020 16:49
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 106
Behind a blue gate
clanger Offline
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Originally Posted by clanger
all on carbs.


This issue is very similar to threads on oil specs. We all have an opinion smile

Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638036
08/01/2020 19:46
08/01/2020 19:46
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,350
Aldershot
PeteP Offline
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Aldershot
A long time ago I used to navigate Shell tankers around the world.

We would load a cargo of, say , Mogas 95 (motor spirit) in Shell's refinery in Curacao and discharge the same into Shell, Esso, BP or Mobil tanks depending on who had bought the cargo. The buyer would add their own particular blend of additives suitable for its local market before it got to the consumer.

Cargo was frequently resold during the voyage resulting in the vessel diverting once or more from the original destination.

A frequent destination was LEFO : Lands End for orders if we were going towards northern Europe, but even that didn't mean that we would actually discharge there.


16VT and X1/9 1500
Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638037
08/01/2020 20:33
08/01/2020 20:33
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,924
North Wales
Theresa Offline
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North Wales
Any (mainly supermarket) fuel for me - 95 has always been fine in my cars, with no improvement or noticability if 98 goes in. Fuel is fuel at the end of the day and even the basic has to meet a standard.

Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638039
08/01/2020 20:58
08/01/2020 20:58
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 130
The Netherlands
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jaaps2 Offline
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The Netherlands
I am forced to change from 95 to 98, this year in The Netherlands the 95 changed to E10. I read somewhere in this forum people are examining changes needed to be able to drive with E10, looking forward to the conclusions.

And I have worked at a refinery of Shell for two years … smile. But in IT, so I have no knowledge of patrol at all.


20VT, build in 1997, first used in 1998
https://youtu.be/mI0jZIIBc2w
Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638043
08/01/2020 22:53
08/01/2020 22:53
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 98
Bury st Edmunds, Suffolk.
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bayliss Offline OP
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Bury st Edmunds, Suffolk.
For clarity, my comment regarding JET branded fuel, I’m going back to the late 1960’s early 70’s when the perception of JET means pee water!!

Re: Petrol quality [Re: clanger] #1638049
09/01/2020 12:21
09/01/2020 12:21
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 603
Freedom
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Originally Posted by clanger
Regards 95 vs 98, I run a full range of garden machinery both 2 stroke and 4 stroke all on carbs and on the occasion I have used 98 (because its all I had in the gerry can at the time, fuel strikes etc.) I feel an immediate improvement in the way the machine runs; chainsaws pick up faster rev out cleanly and run smoother, mowers just run better all round with more power when cutting long grass.

We have an old 1995 Fiat Panda that runs so much smoother on 98, my wife recognises the difference and thats saying something.

I too only use supermarket fuels.



Lol - guilty of having done this too re garden machinery on Super Unleaded. As this is what goes in the Coupe and is in the Jerry cans, I too notice the improvement when using Super.

Regards

MM

Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638050
09/01/2020 13:22
09/01/2020 13:22
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 19
Milton Keynes
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KevinW Offline
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Posts: 19
Milton Keynes
I used to be a loudspeaker designer and there is a host of issue associated with 'the name makes it sound better' 'I can hear a difference'. As soon as you do a double blind trial - i.e. somebody puts in the petrol and someone else tries to guess which type you will probably find the differences disappear statistically !


KevinW
Milton Keynes UK
Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638131
12/01/2020 17:18
12/01/2020 17:18
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,144
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped Offline
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S. Wales. Way beyond my means
My Coupe prefers 98 Ron too. In hot weather you can tell it doesn't run quite right on 95 under hard acceleration. That's partly down to the remap. But at least it shows there is a difference. Much smoother on 98 too.


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Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638158
13/01/2020 15:50
13/01/2020 15:50
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 98
Bury st Edmunds, Suffolk.
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bayliss Offline OP
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Bury st Edmunds, Suffolk.
Does the ethanol content now added to petrol have any consequences for our coupes?

Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638163
13/01/2020 17:41
13/01/2020 17:41
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 354
S Wales
Morrison Offline
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Originally Posted by bayliss
Does the ethanol content now added to petrol have any consequences for our coupes?


I think it does, was told we'd all need new fuel pumps as the ethanol will kill the old ones.

I've always thought super made all my car's feel better, which is why I think it's a placebo. But flea specifically asked about what petrol I used, so there must be something in it.

Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638171
13/01/2020 21:14
13/01/2020 21:14
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 479
Northampton
srm6 Offline
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Northampton
If you are having the car remapped then it makes sense to ask what fuel you are running, but on a standard car when I ran premium unleaded for a number of tanks a few years ago I had - if anything - worse economy (about 1 mpg) and no discernible performance change.

In the past evo has reported seeing more difference from the “freshness” of fuels, and for that reason I have tended to favour busy supermarket forecourts

Re: Petrol quality [Re: bayliss] #1638204
14/01/2020 18:39
14/01/2020 18:39
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32,305
Hemel in the Hempstead
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The 20v/vt will advance the timing until knock occurs, giving slightly more power from higher octane fuel. If your car has been mapped to use 98RON you *must* use the higher octane fuel.
The 16v/vt does not advance the timing past the static setting *unless* it has been mapped for higher octane. Flea's 16NA chip is mapped for 95RON.


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