You're some kind of doughnut Marco!!!

YOU guessed 362 bhp....... So you've won the chance to send me the catch tank! Lol

Scuderia turbo is stock intergrale evo 1 t35 with .63ar turbine housing & measly stage 1 wheel!!

Scara tubular manifold


Nick

Although, looking back at your inital result, I'm quite surprised at the torque level for the boost used?

I did think that.....

Prob due to boost tailing off quite quickly.... Flea reckons he may be able to get it to hold 2-3 psi more which will obviously increase torque and hopefully power a little bit more??

Nick

I said 380 - and Flea hasn't finished yet!

380 would be a lot considering the turbo...... But i think we're going get there!!

Happy days!!

Nick

Finally!

Well done, enjoy.

Cheers bid.....

Hopefully going to collect within a week or so....
Once Flea's squeezed so more horses out of her!!

Update!!!

Flea's been trying the get boost to hold a little better so he put 3 psi more pre load on the wastegate but nothing changed!
It spikes at 1.6 then settles at 1.45, tailing off to 1.2 at redline..
If he tries to dial anymore boost in via the apexi it just spikes then goes back down to 1.45 again. This would explain the slightly less than expected Torque figure!

So this morning flea tried an alternate boost control (manual), and took it for a test drive..... He then text me saying, "Just back from testing. Manual valve can see over 2bar in 5th gear. The boost still drops off, but it's not a spike. This does suggest we are working within the natural efficiency of the turbo. Unfortunately max duty on the Apexi is 90% so it is limiting peak boost and spiking."

This would give ALOT more midrange punch, so prob going ditch the apexi and replace with manual boost controller!
Don't know if this will produce any more peak power but it will definitely make for a healthier Torque figure!!

Nick

2 bar - you should have gone for a 4 bar MAP sensor, your going to run out of range when you want to run 35psi+ or so

I had a similar thing back in the early days with a smaller turbo, regardless of what I set my EBC to my turbo would only hold 12psi to redline - your just running way out on the edge of the compressors abilites

I'm sure Flea has told you all this but if your doing to run that tailed off 1.2bar at redline make sure your intercooling is up to it, especially for track days etc. You have made alot of turbo changes but if I recall it right,its the T04, maps to here at the arrow -365bhp at 1.2bar - thats all its got

I think your right saint where the peak power is concerned, at 367 we're right on the money for that turbo.....
I think we could get a little more boost than we were getting as i've been doing a bit of research and it seems my turbo is near identical to big turbo escort cossie, found this cossie tuning site ...
http://www.motorsport-developments.co.uk/rs_cosworth_tuning_packages.html

It seems for 340+ they seem to get boost to hold 1.6 at redline & for 380+ boost peaks at 33 psi and tails off slowly.....!!
I don't want to run anywhere near 33 psi... But I was thinking 2 bar, then holding 1.5/1.4 @ redline would be attainable??

I understand cossies and fiat coupe 16v's are different cars but after all they are both 2 litre with same CR @ 8:1 so unless the cossie block is Known tobe much stronger than our 16v's, I don't see the problem running 2 bar of boost ( feable amount compared to most tuned cosworths), and I'm not going be doing any track days, maybe the odd one lap blast somewhere though!!

Nick

I would say 367 is right on the limit, not on the money. That turbo is right on the money for more like 300hp and that's why it will make all the boost you want at lower rpm, 2 bar at 300hp is still on the map after all! But it will demand so much more shaft speed at higher rpm it just cant keep up. The wastegate may even be closed at 7000rpm to make 1.4 bar or there abouts.

I don't see the point in pushin 2 bar out of it. You get a lot of torque in the midrange but not a lot else. If it were me, instead of ringing its neck, I'd try and get it to hold a solid 1.2 bar, make about 370hp and it will last forever.

Well the plan was to always run some MANLY Boost, hence the larger map sensor.... And flea seems to think that his findings using manual valve seem to suggest the turbo is still working within it's natural efficiency?
Maybe my turbo is a FREAK..... Maybe the peak power will not increase??
At a steady 1.2 bar yes the turbo may last forever, but I think I'd rather have an extra wedge of torque in the midrange, and risk my turbo taking early retirement!

Nick

The cosworth guys run theese at 2bar all day long... Think its dropping to 22-23 psi 1,5-1,6bar? At redline. Why dont you just get rid of the boost controller?

Think that is the plan bud.....
Ideally wanted a few different boost setting using the apexi but after speaking to Leighton about it, I can just have some sort of switch which will enable me to run high boost but when switched will run standard base boost which is around 0.8-0.9 bar....
Should still be good for around 260 at that level!
So at the flick of a switch have around an extra 100 horses ready to deploy!!

Nick

Good fun :o)
My guess is 406 by the way...

That WOULD be nice.....
It would have to be some engine to produce 406 with that turbo!!

Nick

Maybe the dyno is optimistic??

You ended up with a T38 coldside right? and .63 hotside?

Nope! Turbo is Standard evo 1/16v intergrale cold side, and .63 hot side with standard turbine wheel!!

Nick

Uhhmm i might have been well optimistic, but well see :o)
Did you have a .55 housing? your mailbox is full by the way.

Mail box sorted, cheers!!

Did originally fit a .55, not realising it was for a stage 3 turbine so it was causing a massive boost leak!
Still got the .55, may keep it for a future turbo or may sell as they are apparently quite rare!!??

The standard TB0385 fitted to the Lancia Evo 1 has a 7 blade compressor 69mm/48.77 mm which is a 50 trim Nick's turbo has a 7 blade 69mm/52.2mm 60 trim. The TB04 S trim is an 8 blade compressor 70mm/48.35mm 48 trim, so the map you have is not correct for the turbo Nick has.

I can't find a compressor map that suits Nick's compressor wheel, but I originaly asked Turbo Technics for a turbo capable of 400BHP and that is what they put together for me. Mountune confirmed to me that they were able to get 400HP from the same turbo on the Escort Cosworth Group A rally car engines.

This is why my bet has been on 380BHP or better - my turbo holds 1.7bar to 7000 RPM - even if ACT temps are a bit high due to running into an area of poor efficiency on the map. At 1.4-1.5 bar that problem is reduced.

Read stage 4 here

Update: I have found a compressor map for the Turbo Technics T34/T35 turbo. On the right hand side it extends to 42.5lb/min at 2.5 P/R (1.5 bar boost) at 55% efficiency. At 21.9 P/R (1.9 bar boost) it gives 40lbs/min at 65% efficiency.

It's not standard cold side - you have a larger compressor wheel than standard! You would know if you had a standard cold side because you would be stuck at around 310-320BHP

406 it is then

Well Flea discovered today that it is a dodgy solenoid preventing higher boost....
He replaced it and now the apexi will allow Upto 1.9 bar.... It stays there briefly (so not a spike as such), then returns down to 1.45 bar.... So should get a more impressive torque figure if nothing else!!???

Nick

If he does the mod I suggested via PM it will hold 1.9 bar boost for longer I am sure... The solenoid simply cannot bleed off enough air otherwise, which is what causes the wastegate to open and boost to be lost.

I'm sure, as I said I was trying to recall which compressor as there have been a few changes - the principle being to ensure the intercooling is up to the task as intake temps will be up, with compressor effcency being down

We have discussed discharge temp math in the past, but if it near 50% efficeny at redline they will be up

Nick, what head bolts are you using?

Long ones!!??
Not sure, this is not something I sourced!!
Why??

Running 1.9bar on std head bolts I wouldn't risk.