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Lack Of traction #1084211
10/08/2010 14:15
10/08/2010 14:15
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 684
Derby
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Ecrab Offline OP
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Derby
I did a track day at Anglesey last Sunday, this track has a number of tight corners. I found getting the power down effectivly on the exit of these was difficult especially compared to other cars. My car is a 20VT wih Yokahama Parada's and FK coilovers. Can anything be one to improve this.

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Ecrab] #1084223
10/08/2010 14:41
10/08/2010 14:41

R
RMJ
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RMJ
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Is the engine modified?

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: ] #1084231
10/08/2010 14:56
10/08/2010 14:56

M
Marco20valveT
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Marco20valveT
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i would try some camberbolts set at -1.5 degree's and see how you get on.

you could get a 22mm (Or bigger) rear anti roll bar.

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: ] #1084238
10/08/2010 15:04
10/08/2010 15:04
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,678
Warwickshire
gj88 Offline
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Warwickshire
Do you have a binary throttle action? i.e either foot to the floor or off completely?


[Linked Image]
Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Ecrab] #1084840
11/08/2010 18:42
11/08/2010 18:42
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
Trappy Offline
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Essex
Two questions.

1. What are these 'other cars' you're comparing it to?

2. What suspension/ chassis mods are you running?


F****** b****** thing...
Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Trappy] #1084893
11/08/2010 19:51
11/08/2010 19:51
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 684
Derby
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Ecrab Offline OP
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I have to admit some of the cars were perhaps not fair competition, cars such as 911's and M3's, but I expected to be quicker than the less high performance 3 series. It wasn't the fact that they were quicker it was that they were a lot quicker.
I have FK coil-overs and a strut upper brace

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Ecrab] #1084921
11/08/2010 20:25
11/08/2010 20:25
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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As Marco says above, a stiffer rear ARB will make a massive difference to cornering performance

A little more camber would also help, although I'd stay under 1.5 degrees on the road

Any high-performance RWD car is going to have the edge over a Coupe on the track, although its surprising how close you can get


[Linked Image]
Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Nigel] #1084938
11/08/2010 20:46
11/08/2010 20:46
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 684
Derby
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Ecrab Offline OP
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Forgot to metion got 1.25 Deg neg camber. Is it just the rear anti-roll bar that needs stiffening

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Ecrab] #1084965
11/08/2010 21:14
11/08/2010 21:14
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,004
Leeds
M
MattM Offline
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Leeds
When you say your struggling to get the power down, are you spinning the wheels?

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: MattM] #1084976
11/08/2010 21:25
11/08/2010 21:25
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 684
Derby
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Ecrab Offline OP
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I was trying to accelerate at the fasted rate without spinning the wheels.

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Ecrab] #1084991
11/08/2010 21:44
11/08/2010 21:44

K
ktm450exc
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ktm450exc
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K



never been on a track but would imagine what holds true in mx is same on track with a car

if you come into a corner wrong and come out in the wrong part of the motors power or the wrong gear you will spin on exit trying to get the power down

some bikes (my big 4st) i need to carry a lot of speed in and around the corner and be gentle on the throttle on the way out always with some throttle to keep my wheels turning all the way round the corner..i have done all my braking and am off them before corner and on throttle slightly all the way round to aid traction(no big on off business)
i see some come stonking in brake hard gear no throttle at all or still on brakes in corner then try to accelerate out and woder why they spin up and go sideways

there must be something like this but car related if you know what i mean to work your way round quicker without spinning on the way out

can someone translate that to car for me

Last edited by ktm450exc; 11/08/2010 21:45.
Re: Lack Of traction [Re: ] #1084996
11/08/2010 21:50
11/08/2010 21:50
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
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Jimbo Offline
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Fit some good quality dampers and bin the FK's and you'll improve things straight away. FK's are all spring and not much damping so the wheel won't be getting chance to stay in contact with the floor, it'll be skipping over it.

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Jimbo] #1085001
11/08/2010 21:53
11/08/2010 21:53
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,004
Leeds
M
MattM Offline
I need some sleep
MattM  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,004
Leeds
Tyres - if your doing a few track days, get some track tyres

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Jimbo] #1085004
11/08/2010 21:55
11/08/2010 21:55

K
ktm450exc
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ktm450exc
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whats the point of coilovers if they dont work on track? and if they dont what does

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: ] #1085104
12/08/2010 07:44
12/08/2010 07:44
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
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Jimbo Offline
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There seems to be some sort of mythical reasoning that fitting coilovers will transform a car into an amazing handling track beast, they don't. Well let me change that, they can if you throw enough money at them.

A coilover is only as good as the parts it's made from, a damper and a spring. In FK's case, it's a poor damper or at least one that is underdamped. FK's fix was to fit a stiffer spring so the spring now does all the work without being controlled properly.
Under acceleration the wheel could start to skip as the rapidly bouncing spring isn't being controlled.

A smaller spring like those in a coilover will resonate at a higher frequency than a large one such as a standard spring or an Eibach lowering spring so the damping has to be able to cope with this, unfortunately on some of the cheaper coilovers they have fitted cheaper parts so you end up with a bouncy feeling ride.

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Jimbo] #1085109
12/08/2010 08:00
12/08/2010 08:00

M
MattW
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MattW
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M



How old are the wishbones and do you have a lower strut brace fitted?

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: MattM] #1085131
12/08/2010 08:42
12/08/2010 08:42

M
Marco20valveT
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Marco20valveT
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Originally Posted By: MattM
Tyres - if your doing a few track days, get some track tyres


Brilliant point!!

get some R888's!

i cant believe how much grip they really give you!!

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: ] #1085198
12/08/2010 10:47
12/08/2010 10:47

K
ktm450exc
Unregistered
ktm450exc
Unregistered
K



jimbo i am glad you said that as i found the coilovers on my le when over 120 very bouncy enough to make me back off even on the motorway..i have the stronger springs that are supposeed to rectify this but dont want to fit them to find its not much better
i only mentioned this last week as when i had standard dampers and eibachs i could get 160+ without ever feeling the suspension make me nervous


in this case what would you think the best set up for fast road /track?

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: ] #1085203
12/08/2010 10:55
12/08/2010 10:55

M
Marco20valveT
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Marco20valveT
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one of the best set up that work and are in an affordable budget would be the billy and Eibach kit...

but if you have a grand or 2... Gaz coil overs lick

Last edited by Marco20valveT; 12/08/2010 10:56.
Re: Lack Of traction [Re: ] #1085251
12/08/2010 12:04
12/08/2010 12:04

K
ktm450exc
Unregistered
ktm450exc
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K



i know about the billies eibachs but are we saying this is the best without spending big? what about osravs etc?
i am not too bothered about the ride quality on road but i want to drive it as agressively as possible on track days so dont want something thats is going to be overwhelmed nor do i want to bounce to the point of backing off ..is there anything that you (or anyone knows of to suit)?

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: ] #1085359
12/08/2010 14:46
12/08/2010 14:46
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
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Jimbo Offline
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Osrav/Billy combination would be better for you if your wanting more control of the suspension.

Yep, I found the FK's dangerous, you could almost lose control on a fast bumpy stretch of road, like you said, you end up backing off to regain control.
The harder springs are a bodge fix from FK to cover up a rubbish damper, because the spring is so hard the damper no longer does any work, the spring does it all.

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Jimbo] #1085390
12/08/2010 15:38
12/08/2010 15:38
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 684
Derby
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Ecrab Offline OP
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Derby
Is there any other make of insert that will fit the FK strut. It seems a waste to have to replace the complete set-up

Last edited by Ecrab; 12/08/2010 15:39.
Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Ecrab] #1085433
12/08/2010 17:08
12/08/2010 17:08
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
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Jimbo Offline
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There is a Koni insert that will fit the fronts but make sure you get the right one, I ended up sending back a set of inserts as they had ordered the regular coupe Koni insert, not the one for the FK strut.

Your better off going to an FK dealer and ordering through them, just tell them you have the adjustable dampers for the coupe that needs new inserts and they should be able to track down the bits.

Be warned though, they were still £150 each ! That's why I said stuff it and replaced the lot for a better set, they cost more but I'm happy.

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Jimbo] #1085465
12/08/2010 18:28
12/08/2010 18:28

K
ktm450exc
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ktm450exc
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ok so whats your advice here sell my fks and buy what?

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: ] #1085625
12/08/2010 22:09
12/08/2010 22:09
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
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Jimbo Offline
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I'm not advising selling your FK's, that's your choice. I found them unsafe for fast bumpy roads but others get on ok with them.

There are hundreds of suspension threads on here, all the good setups are mentioned in every thread, take your pick depending on your budget.

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Jimbo] #1085627
12/08/2010 22:12
12/08/2010 22:12
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,004
Leeds
M
MattM Offline
I need some sleep
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Posts: 3,004
Leeds
The FK's are pretty good on track because the surface is so smooth (in general).

I totally agree about them being absymal on road though

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: MattM] #1085634
12/08/2010 22:21
12/08/2010 22:21

K
ktm450exc
Unregistered
ktm450exc
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K



i have read a lot of the threads and am aware of the many discussions
i will just ask what is the best set up say for under £700
for track
i am happy to have bouncy road if they will really deliver on the track ..if they are only mediocre i will get what is better


nigel have you driven with fks and you think the osrav eibachs are better on track?

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: ] #1085647
12/08/2010 22:37
12/08/2010 22:37
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,244
Watford, Herts.
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Hyperlink Offline
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This is an old post...
....but I would suggest most of the info is still relevant.

Re: Lack Of traction [Re: Hyperlink] #1085657
12/08/2010 23:01
12/08/2010 23:01
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,728
N.E Scotland
mattB Offline
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N.E Scotland
I paid a good bit of money for my coilovers but worth it as far as I'm concerned. Compared to previous setup the car feels much better and can can get a good bit more drive out of corners because they dont bounce.


Death-rattle-tastic
Re: Lack Of traction [Re: mattB] #1085661
12/08/2010 23:23
12/08/2010 23:23

K
ktm450exc
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
K



which ones you got?

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