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Camber bolts self manufacture
#1118000
20/10/2010 21:16
20/10/2010 21:16
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,084 Pontypandy
mr_tickle
OP
Competition Level
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I have been looking at a picture of the H-R set and the cost to purchase them of £48.61 In my opinion this is very expensive relative to the quality of the end product. Would someone be able to give/lend me one in order to see if I could get a batch made up at work. I'll ask one of my engineers to have a look and see if we can machine some of our existing stock of stainless steel bolts to the exact profile. If anyone has already done this or found an alternative supplier that can make them up for a few £ let me know. If I was able to make up a few sets of these, which would include the nuts, washers and spacer, would anyone be interested? Thanks Mr T.
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: mr_tickle]
#1118008
20/10/2010 21:25
20/10/2010 21:25
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,012 ation
szkom
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I'll ask one of my engineers to have a look and see if we can machine some of our existing stock of stainless steel bolts to the exact profile.
Would stainless steel not be really bad to use in a high load application?
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: szkom]
#1118011
20/10/2010 21:28
20/10/2010 21:28
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855 Birmingham
benje
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My life on the forum
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I'll ask one of my engineers to have a look and see if we can machine some of our existing stock of stainless steel bolts to the exact profile.
Would stainless steel not be really bad to use in a high load application? I believe so, I think you'd need a none stainless grade 10.9 for this application.
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: benje]
#1118018
20/10/2010 21:39
20/10/2010 21:39
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,728 N.E Scotland
mattB
Club member 6
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Club member 6
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Not saying it's not a good idea, but have you considered what might happen if one of these was to fail? You could be opening yourself up to a world of pain in terms of liabilities should anything nasty happen.
I'd much rather buy from a large well known company like H + R than some bloke on an internet forum who 'said it'd alright, like.'
Death-rattle-tastic
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: mattB]
#1118165
21/10/2010 09:29
21/10/2010 09:29
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,084 Pontypandy
mr_tickle
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Posts: 2,084
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I have found these from Fleabay . £22 delivered is still very expensive for two bolts, but more realistic. I think that based on the ebay price vs the H-R price it would not be worth me trying to manufacture these cheaply for our benefit. Thanks anyway.
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: Nigel]
#1118617
21/10/2010 22:23
21/10/2010 22:23
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Taz
Unregistered
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Taz
Unregistered
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ALSO, NEVER fit to the LOWER strut point, ALWAYS the top, the shear forces are massive in comparison, I did a LOT of work & used some very specialist metallurgy advice in the old days to check out some USA bolts, they were shit, the QA of the material was that of Gr 8.8 on a good day going down hill with a rocket propelling you. No less than 12.9 IMHO ( as the shank will only be a M10 ). Don't think stainless is tough, fatigue resistance is crap HTH
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: Ecrab]
#1118762
22/10/2010 09:26
22/10/2010 09:26
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
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Forum veteran
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Assuming both the upper and lower bolt are tightened to the same torque, this is the maximum load the bolt will ever see. Which is exactly my point - the torque setting for the camber bolt is much less - just 55 lb-ft with the Eibach bolts
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: Nigel]
#1118802
22/10/2010 11:14
22/10/2010 11:14
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 866 Derby
TimC
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Enjoying the ride
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Posts: 866
Derby
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So, are THESE any good? Is the seller reputable and are they likely to be genuine Eibach bolts?
20VT+ 305bhp 284lb/ft
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: TimC]
#1118814
22/10/2010 11:44
22/10/2010 11:44
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Marco20valveT
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Marco20valveT
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yer there fine!
im doing a group buy and we can get them cheaper mate!! see the group buy section!
its only £1 cheaper...
by the way, the group buy camber bolts are Eibach!
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: ]
#1119099
22/10/2010 19:58
22/10/2010 19:58
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Taz
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Taz
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ERM, wrong ! Friction may be related to a clamping force applied by torquing up a bolt ( and this is assuming that both surfaces are DRY / clean of debris etc ) HOWEVER that does NOT mean that both bolt areas experience the SAME force on them, BENDING MOMENTS anybody ? Fit them to the bottom & let me know how long you live with "athletic driving". I really hope someone doesn't ignore my advice.
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: ]
#1119101
22/10/2010 20:04
22/10/2010 20:04
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Taz
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Taz
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oh, and 55 lbs of torque is no good, on an standard M12 I would expect about 250Nm ( whatever that is in pounds, say 175 lb ) This means the clamping force is Already less than stock = movement = bolt shear. incidentally 55lb is only about the max for a Gr 10.9, fail
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: ]
#1119112
22/10/2010 20:18
22/10/2010 20:18
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 684 Derby
Ecrab
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The maximum stress the bolt sees in this application will see is when is is originaly tighted. The joint is kept together by friction not by the bolt sitting against the side of the hole. (unless the joint is uncorrectly designed) The bolt will not see any more stress in service than when it is stationary. The bolt does not see any bending at all, the joint however does and this is different at the top and bottom
Last edited by Ecrab; 22/10/2010 20:30.
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: Ecrab]
#1119125
22/10/2010 21:05
22/10/2010 21:05
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Taz
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Taz
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Ok Pal, my fault, It TRULY is a STATIC application & not subject to vibration, SHOCK loading etc / dynamic force placed upon the joint assembly ( note the word assembly ). I apologise Anyhow, this is NOT aimed at scaring persons from buying a camber bolt ( hell I've used them ) however remember it's limits ). HTH.
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: ]
#1119149
22/10/2010 21:49
22/10/2010 21:49
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 684 Derby
Ecrab
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Enjoying the ride
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Ok Pal, my fault, It TRULY is a STATIC application & not subject to vibration, SHOCK loading etc / dynamic force placed upon the joint assembly ( note the word assembly ).
HTH. You need to investigate the design of bolted joints . The pre load in the bolt due to the initial torgue should exceed any load that is seen in service. This means the bolt will not see any additional load. Any sidewides forces on the strut caused by cornering, braking, or accelerating will put less load on the upper part of the joint than the lower, however any verical load on the strut by load transfer in cornering, or bumps in the road (Shock) will actually load the upper part of the joint more than the lower
Last edited by Ecrab; 23/10/2010 10:02.
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: Ecrab]
#1119513
23/10/2010 22:22
23/10/2010 22:22
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
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Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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rather than using camber bolts, can't the hole be filed eliptcal in the shock absorber as some of the coil over are made Yes, that's another way of doing it, but there is no method of adjustment, other than loosening both bolts and angling the hub by hand the beauty of camber bolts is that rotating the bolt actually adjusts the camber (because there's a cam in the middle of the bolt)
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: Ecrab]
#1119555
23/10/2010 23:59
23/10/2010 23:59
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Taz
Unregistered
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Taz
Unregistered
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As I said previously I commissioned a mate from work ( by the way he is a VERY WELL qualified metallurgist, mainly EX MOD , Nuclear, Automotive & has extensive NDT knowledge ). When I drafted a drawing of the fit ( noting that the OEM uses a fitted bolt setup with a close fitting shank to act as a load bearer if the bolt looses pre-load, i.e. corrosion / poor fitting ), he was alarmed to say the least. Pretty much reinforced my own conclusions, BTW this company was sent the results ( in a discreet way, NOT Eibach / H&R as their products are VERY good , but an American company ). HTH chaps @ Ecrab, the design is quite intricate, it's a casting, rather than a forging ( on the cheaper types ).
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: ]
#1119998
24/10/2010 16:15
24/10/2010 16:15
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 684 Derby
Ecrab
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Enjoying the ride
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.
@ Ecrab, the design is quite intricate, it's a casting, rather than a forging ( on the cheaper types ).
Taz are you saying the bolts are cast rather than forged ?
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: Ecrab]
#1120670
25/10/2010 18:51
25/10/2010 18:51
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Taz
Unregistered
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Taz
Unregistered
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I know / have it on some recollection that the very expensive ones are from a forged stamping which then is machined... I am pretty sure that the cheap jobbies are just a casting / pressure casting ( certainly the spec they were assumed to made to, they didn't even meet ). Also, the standards of underhead radii, threadforms etc all pointed to a shocking design. This particular bolt is NOT the Eibach / H&R brand, however I am happy to let you know the maker by PM. Joe AKA Dr Frag was the unfortunate victim of this make & I did a lot of correspondence in the old days to assist him HTH
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Re: Camber bolts self manufacture
[Re: Nigel]
#1121425
26/10/2010 22:12
26/10/2010 22:12
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,694 Midlands
MCMike
Club member 2095
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Club member 2095
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Posts: 3,694
Midlands
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IIRC Didn't Joe has his camber bolt in the wrong hole though - causing excessive stress to the bolt ?
1972 Triumph Stag 1984 Alfasud TI 1999 Fiat Coupe Turbo LE 2005 350Z
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