I'm looking to drive to Berlin over xmas - temperatures are already forecast to be -12C this weekend. The rule in Germany seems to be that winter tyres are not *required* but if there's an accident and they're not fitted, it's your fault by definition...

Hence I want some winter tyres. The websites I have seen seem to get confused when you ask them about M+S tyres... any recommendations? At the moment the Falken HS-439 seems a possibility. I'm not planning on driving there at 150mph, so the V/W/Z rated tyres are not necessary.

I'd be looking to keep two almost new Toyos to replace in Spring, but the rears are down to a couple of mm so are due for a change anyway.

You're right in Germany is quite that law.

I drive a good year ultra grip 205/50/16 speed rating H

I use Uniroyal MS Plus 66 on my winter wheels. All the winter tyres I found in 205/50 16 were H rated-as recommended in the Coupe handbook for winter tyres. I haven't tried them in snow yet but am looking forward to it. They've been on since October and have been good in all the weather conditions experienced since then.

I've also only found H-rated... but if conditions are like that I'm not going to be racing.

Every winter I drive on snow and coupé is controlled very well

Oddly enough, the first winter I bought the coupe - 1995 - I drove to see my parents on Skye, north west Scotland. Temperatures hit -20 and the sea froze, which is to say the least unusual... no problems with the coupe except an ABS light because the sensor was full of ice.

I read the other day that Pirelli are currently campaigning to get the use of winter tyres made mandatory in this country, as such, they are offering 50% off 4 winter tyres if the temperature reaches over 8°C for 30 non-consecutive days between sometime in November and something like February.

As you can see, the article didn’t exactly sink in, but with some investigation (I think it was on the BBC or Pistonheads) and meteorological luck, you might be able to get some cheap tyres!

I'd already seen the flyer - the details are here: http://www.pirelli.co.uk/web/car-suv-van/prom-iniz/terms-conditions.page and it needs 30 days above 7C average between 1st Jan and 28th Feb. That's the coldest part of the year... sucker bet.

<-- average min/max temperatures in the UK...

Pirelli are not a cheap option. While I would never advocate budget tyres on a performance car, I'm not sure I can afford what Pirelli want - £120 a corner or so.

I'll have a word at my friendly tyre place later this morning - I want to be sure they're happy to stick the Toyos back on in April.

Does it really matter during the winter? Not really going to be doing performance speeds on snow and ice and in the fog and rain, etc.

Have a look here for some idea on prices, etc.

Already looking at Mytyres, thanks - they use my local place as a fitter so I have some negotiation room.

My concern with budget tyres is irrespective of conditions - previous experience has suggested that even though they are required to meet all the relevant legislation, they tend to be harder compounds with less grip and poorer turning and braking abilities. That's just a personal view, not necessarily that of the management... but when all that's between me and the ditch is thirty square inches of rubber, I'd rather it was good rubber.

I completely mis-read that one word! Doh! <blushes profusely>

Auto Express recently tested winter tyres, you may have seen the article?

To summarise the article: the summer tyres that we use in this country are obviously poor on snow but there is a "middle way" called the "all season" tyre. Vredestein produce good all season tyres, but again you are looking at around £90/corner.

The ratings overall (aggregate test scores in brackets) were:

1. Goodyear (100.0)
2. Continental (99.7)
3. Dunlop (98.9)
4. Vredestein (98.6)
5. Pirelli (97.1)
6. Nokian (96.7)
7. All-season (95.1)

Last: Summer/standard tyres (76.4)

For my daily driver I use Vredestein because that is what we used at work, they offer excellent grip, great value and good lifespan. Example, Neil, you know the angle of the long driveway that accesses our house? Last winter our car was the *only* one that could tackle that successfully during the worst of the snow! Obviously some of that comes down to driving experience, I mean watching some people attempting that driveway in 1st gear, wheels spinning and wondering why they couldn't get traction, it is little wonder that people get caught out in poor conditions....

I vote for Vredestein, or if on a budget/not intended to be used on a regular basis, then look at Nokian.

For Germany, it has to marked with snowflake or M+S i.e. a defined winter tyre.

Vredestein are definitely on the list.

p.s. you have a rude, crude, and vulgar mind. I'd like it back please, if you're finished with it.

p.p.s. there are websites for people like you... Possibly NSFW though the front page seems OK.

The law has just got a little tighter here and if it is wintery, you must have winter or all-weather tyres on the car. So, yes do buy the right tyres.

The ADAC tested two sizes of winter tyres this year:

185/65 15:
http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/rei...rcePageId=31821

225/45 17
http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/rei...rcePageId=31821

The Fiat falls in between these two sizes, so a tyre that performed well in both tests should be good in a 205 15/16 size.

You will not go far wrong with any of the top brands. Dunlop seems consistent. Michelin have produced top winter tyres over the last two seasons (before that they seemed to have a weakness in the wet but lasted really well). Now they still last well but work better in all conditions. However, they are usually the most expensive brand. Conti and Goodyear rarely market a bad winter tyre.

I fully agree with you that tyres are very important and the saving on budgets is too small to worry about. Winter tyres are a massive compromise anyway because they have to cope with snow and ice - buy the best you can. Remember that a winter tyre only does snow and ice better than a good summer tyre. The rest suffers, even down to 0 deg.C, including shifting water. The 7 deg.C border is now a out-of-date myth, but still used by tyre companies to help persuade you to buy winter tyres.

Do you know where you're best getting these from - tried both blackcircles and tyreshopper and they either had none, or only Kumho/value rubbish*?



* I share the view that I would rather have the confidence that I've put good quality contact patches in each corner

I got a pair of Kumho KW17 last winter for the front of my 20VT and was really pleased with them. The traction in snow was great and on other winter roads they were very good, wet or dry. I think the usual rules about performance and brands are slightly different when it comes to winter tyres. I know the Kumho's don't get the highest rating in the tests but they were about the only ones I could get in January and I was pleasantly surprised with them.

Brave man mixing snow tyres and marbles!

I just use the local suppliers, they usually have to order them in but the price is good for normal tyres, I'm currently paying just £50+VAT for each tyre, that's a 205/55/16, but not a coupé....

Well, I had a long and instructive conversation with my tyre place... turns out everybody's advertising them but nobody's got'em. E.g. for the Falkens there are non in the country. Pirelli's were available at five hundred and fifty quid for the set... on a couple of week's notice.

I've ordered some Toyo Snoprox S952 which should be here at the weekend or so...

While I was at it I picked up fifty kilos of road salt at B&Q, and bought most of Halfords: fluorescent bile-green screen wash, three squirties of defroster, new bulb set (required on the continent and mine is somewhat depleted), WD40, power steering fluid (I have a slow leak), and silicon lubricant, with which I have just done all the locks and keyholes - don't forget the fuel filler - and the door rubbers on both coupes.

Good choice, I nearly put some on mine. I use the 4x4 version on my wife's RAV4 all year round. Excellent grip in snow and ice, light steering and good grip in all weathers. In the snow it was unstoppable. I drove down one snowcovered hill and got to work to find a colleague had crashed going down it and the police had closed it.
I've had them on for 20k miles and wear is negligable.

I should be able to report back as to whether £600 spent on winter tyres was a worthwhile investment. There can be few cars better than a Merc E-Class to prove their worth - especially a diesel auto. Apart from that, I have little interest in snow.

Are 205/50 15" and 16" tyres getting rarer. Yesterday I checked Reifen.com which is a good German internet tyre shop and the choice of tyres in these sizes is getting rather thin - only 5 choices in the 15" size!

Still 17 in the 16" size, but the prices seem extremely high for anything well known.

Hmm ... Maybe another reason to buy something more modern

No snow here (Oxon). -2 on the way to work.

Oh FFS! My work have decided to turn the heating OFF for a few weeks. They have given us a few gas heaters, but my office is a pathetic 17 degrees at the moment, plus I have the added luxury of an ill fitting window to cool me down.

<Rant over>

No sign of snow in my little bit of Northumberland this morning. It wasn't even that cold - I took the bike into work this morning and I'd say it was well above freezing.

Yeah, the major manufacturers seem to have stopped doing 15s in 50 or 55 a while ago.

Funny; when I bought the car, 195/55/15 were really low profile and hard to come by - three hundred quid a corner. It was cheaper for me to drive to Berlin and get some there... then they were a default size; now all the chavs want seventeens or bigger.

I'm thinking of getting just 2 front winter tyres for the other half's old corsa - what sort of budget do I need to have in mind? They're only small steel wheels.

Jim

Let's hope they are wrong......

Gosh!! I hope they are wrong, my thermals are still at the cleaners

I'm not sure just fitting two is a sensible plan. If grip at the front is a lot better than rear grip, the thing will spin like a top at the first roundabout.

The other issue is whether you can find some. Mytyres.com might be your best bet but on the Merc forum they were saying that they are tough to find (4 weeks ago). If the rush today at Costco for sledges, shovels and snow shoe grips was anything to go by, there will have been a similar rush around the country for snow tyres this week.

On the whole they seem to be about 50% more expensive than regular tyres.

who do you use neil?

This was with Kiplings. They do most of the stuff I don't have time for/can't be bothered to do/MOTs and such that doesn't need specialist Coupe guys.

I've used the guys down by the Volvo garage on London Road, but drifted away from them...