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What Water/Meth injection nozzle size #1210616
05/05/2011 17:46
05/05/2011 17:46
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
Ferrarist Offline OP
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I'm on my way to put my water injection on duty, but unsure of what cc size nozzle must be used. Have 75cc, 90cc and two 300cc's.....boost pressure switch just arrived today.
My spec's as follow:
GT28RS
4FPR
3" straight DP to the tail.
Stock injectors, Walbro, SIP,FMIC, and Flea remap......
Any opinions will be considered.
Thanks.


20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT

Re: What Water/Meth injection nozzle size [Re: Ferrarist] #1210656
05/05/2011 19:05
05/05/2011 19:05

G
group5lancia
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group5lancia
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Need some more information to advise....

What pressure is the water injection pump running at?
Does the water pressure increase with boost?
Do you have a graph, power against RPM?
What are inlet temperatures at the moment?
What is your target inlet temperature?

What programmable (or pressure switch) control over water flow do you have? i.e. single stage (one injector) or can you control a secondary injector?

Re: What Water/Meth injection nozzle size [Re: ] #1210719
05/05/2011 20:54
05/05/2011 20:54
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Originally Posted by group5lancia
Need some more information to advise....

What pressure is the water injection pump running at?
Does the water pressure increase with boost?
Do you have a graph, power against RPM?
What are inlet temperatures at the moment?
What is your target inlet temperature?

What programmable (or pressure switch) control over water flow do you have? i.e. single stage (one injector) or can you control a secondary injector?

1 - 150 psi
2 - No
3 - No
4 - Have no time to observe, but no complains......
5 - i'm not in pursuing big power, map is for 1.4 bar, and i just want to be safe, have unused w/m inj kit in my garage, why not to try it.....
6 - Only single injector


20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT

Re: What Water/Meth injection nozzle size [Re: Ferrarist] #1210734
05/05/2011 21:23
05/05/2011 21:23

G
group5lancia
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group5lancia
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OK. Problem is you ideally you need more water at peak torque and less at peak power. As you only have control for one nozzle, use this formula:

(9 x max torque (lb/ft) x rpm (peak torque)) all divided by 100000

e.g. (9 x 300 x 5000)/100000 = 135cc/min

This will give you a ratio of about 12.5% water (or water/methanol) per unit of fuel (by weight)

Another way you could estimate nozzle flow rate is using the maximum flow in cc/min of of your fuel injectors, in which case:

Fuel injector flow rate x 5 x 0.8 x 0.73 x 0.125 = water nozzle flow rate.

Where:

5 = number of injectors
0.8 = 80% duty cycle
0.73 = density of petrol
0.125 = 12.5%

So, for 360cc fuel injectors you get:

360 x 5 x 0.8 x 0.73 x 0.125 = 131.4cc/min.

Last edited by group5lancia; 05/05/2011 23:02.
Re: What Water/Meth injection nozzle size [Re: Ferrarist] #1210838
06/05/2011 08:15
06/05/2011 08:15
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I can bet half of my car, that nobody could explain this better.....
Many thanks.....


20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT

Re: What Water/Meth injection nozzle size [Re: Ferrarist] #1210845
06/05/2011 09:10
06/05/2011 09:10
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,486
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technics Offline
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Front end or rear end?


Now in the 400+ bhp club!
Re: What Water/Meth injection nozzle size [Re: technics] #1211116
06/05/2011 18:15
06/05/2011 18:15
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Originally Posted by technics
Front end or rear end?

Sorry - can not understand your question......
PS - i will use windscreen wash tank for water/meth, and just put another tank from Alfa 156 on the other side to feed the wipes with water......

Last edited by Ferrarist; 06/05/2011 18:17.

20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT

Re: What Water/Meth injection nozzle size [Re: Ferrarist] #1211132
06/05/2011 19:12
06/05/2011 19:12
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,208
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kaci Offline
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Originally Posted by Ferrarist
Sorry - can not understand your question......

He asked which half of the car give for a better explanation laugh


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Re: What Water/Meth injection nozzle size [Re: kaci] #1211152
06/05/2011 20:23
06/05/2011 20:23
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Originally Posted by kaci
Originally Posted by Ferrarist
Sorry - can not understand your question......

He asked which half of the car give for a better explanation laugh

Oh, sorry.....
Rear end off course, and most of all the part where the fuel cap sits......


20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT

Re: What Water/Meth injection nozzle size [Re: Ferrarist] #1211424
07/05/2011 15:46
07/05/2011 15:46
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OK, last questions and chance for some to win half of my car....
Today i removed outer part of the intake in order to drill a hole for the nozzle. As you can see from the picture i need to know best location for it.
Before of after AIT sensor? It sits straight below number 17, so maybe hole and nozzle at 17 is'nt good idea.
click to enlarge
Because intake will be off the car for few days, and i think it may be good idea to rasp intake ports, i plan in mid summer to strip and overhaul the entire engine, porting head and intakes(infact i have spare head from 20V/NA ported and ready to put in), and hope to do that part now, and save some time afterwards.
How much i can take off from it - 1-2-3 mm????
click to enlarge

Thanks again......

Last edited by Ferrarist; 07/05/2011 15:49.

20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT

Re: What Water/Meth injection nozzle size [Re: Ferrarist] #1211439
07/05/2011 17:09
07/05/2011 17:09

G
group5lancia
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group5lancia
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Originally Posted by Ferrarist
OK, last questions and chance for some to win half of my car....
Today i removed outer part of the intake in order to drill a hole for the nozzle. As you can see from the picture i need to know best location for it.
Before of after AIT sensor? It sits straight below number 17, so maybe hole and nozzle at 17 is'nt good idea.


I think in the area of 10-11-12 would be best. That way you are spraying in the same direction as the airflow, and the engine will see the correct charge temperature.

Last edited by group5lancia; 07/05/2011 17:10.
Re: What Water/Meth injection nozzle size [Re: ] #1211456
07/05/2011 17:46
07/05/2011 17:46
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
Ferrarist Offline OP
Enjoying the ride
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Yes, also thought same location will suit fine........


20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT


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