Has anyone has a set of these in the past? as mine came yesterday and i am confussed as to whether or not thay come with new shell bearings? should i buy some new shells or stick with the fiat ones? jules

Yes i use these all the time,no they dont come with bearings unless specified as theres various different sizes of crank.

PEC rods are supposedly made in Europe (somewhere - Sweden I think). Do you know if that is a fact? i.e. they are not made in China....

And what is your experience with PEC rods - how good are they?

ok. Will standard motorfactor/fiat shells fit my crank and PEC rods? as i nolonger have my old ones because i sent them to PEC for a discount. And is £75 for shells a good price?

Johnny, which way does the oil groves face on the rods? the back or the front of the engine or does it not matter aslong as thay are all the same? ;ules

Theres several different sizes of crankshafts.
You need to determine what the size is before ordering the shells.

The next issue youll have is that Fiat no longer specify the shell size by colour.
So they cant guarantee what size they will be but you still have to pay for them.

Theres 2 manufacturers of bearings that i know still do the various sizes for these.

You must use a plastiguage to make sure the clearances on each main are within tolerance.

The other thing is when you fit the rods to the crank,you can slide them 2mm side to side.
Dont worry about this as there like it from new but it doent seem right when your rebuilding it.

To answer the question above,although PEC label these rods,its common knowledge that there made in China iirc from one of the other forums.

But all i can say to that is i have used them with no issues and i rebuilt a mates subaru with these rods.
He ran his car through a flood and locked the engine solid.
Rods didnt bend or shatter.Impressive.

The rods allegidly are chinese,not that this compromises quality.
Again i dont work in China or Australia so consider it ''hear say''.
The refinement i.e finishing,etc is done outside.

Also make sure that if you use PEC that you pay on a credit card as there was a massive internal tax fraud recently which almost took them into administration.
The last piston and rod set took near 4 months to get to me.
That said,you wont find a cheaper package for such good components.

I can clear up the 'hear say' on rods similar to these.

I bought a set of a similar looking set of rods to use in my forge engine build. Took them to Guy Croft who looked at them and then got the company next door to test for rockwell hardness, the results were it was too hard, a vaule of 32 IIRC and GC likes around 26 - 28 IIRC again.

GC also took out a tool to check to see how round the main end was, it wasn't. It was oval. He then compared a used standard rod and that was more circular than the brand new forged rod.

I got a refund on my rods and went got the Pauter rods I had refurbished.

Im using Pauter rods now,
And i have seen a few aftermarket rods that pinch the big ends when tightening due to not being round.

Where can I get hold of a set of pauter rods? I'm building a forged 16vt and still researching parts that I'd like to use.

I got mine from Barbz.

Cheers John I suppose I could get the pistons from Barbz also?

Yes and my advice is to drop the engine off to him for a bit of magic,.
If your not impressed im sure he will offer a full refund

Rods you can get direct from Pauter, they even list them on their website and do actually communicate via email too!

I think you will find that Pauter and Carrillo rods are made from 4340 and hardened to Rockwell C36.

Maybe original Fiat rods are made from a different alloy and cannot take the same hardness without getting brittle. 4340 gets brittle at Rockwell C46.

Oval big end housings are a problem though!

I have noticed that the GC spec Cunningham 4340 rods are hardened to Rockwell C34: http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?t=592

so Rockwell C 26-28 must be max for a lower quality (Fiat) steel.

This will be my first engine build, only ever done swaps and quite excited about the prospect of building an engine for 400bhp hopefully

Make sure that your on speaking terms with Begbie and Barnacle then.There the 16v specialists.

Oh yes definitely, must remember the beers I'm merely a student in this school of tricks

If you're serious about building a big powered 16v engine and going to do it yourself, best thing would be to get Guy Croft's latest book, got everything you need to know about the 16v engine

Cheers begbie, I'll try to order one today if possible.

Seconded. Its a superb book.

I wouldn't know yet, as I've not ordered a copy yet and has has pictures of my engine in there too

I'd let you borrow mine but, well.....its precious

<strokes book>

Master has precious! LOL

so far one if the rods little end was a tad tight. but i honed it in and now it fits nice. as goes for the big ends i will have to see wont i! I am using a engine machinist in portsmouth called Banned Engineering. A set of uprated (better load resistance) leaded bronze shells £75+VAT. As goes the different sized cranks, why do thay make them different? ;ules

Jules what power are you planning to run?

Also, is that the only issue so far?

I'm about to buy a set of pec rods + wossenger pistons..

Interested to know more!!

Im planning 350bhp, not much for the setup but my pistons failed so thats why i got this package. So far it took me 4weeks to get the pistons and 9weeks for the rods, all after paying first. Dave (sales at PEC) informed me that PEC's suplier of the rods had taken the order to make them but infact some one had pocketed the order money and faked a works order.?? On the PEC website it states that all wossner pistons are mirror polished but infact they just have a good milling finish. All pistons come with rings (not fitted) and gudgeon pins (all centreless ground and internaly tapered). Rods come with 10 ARP bolts and bolt assy lube, No white metal shells though. Although on the plus side Dave was incredibly helpful and always replied to my mails. Plus if you send your old rods and pistons in any condition(speak to Dave first) you MAY get a discount!
Will be fitting them this weekend so will let you know how it goes. ;ules

I heard about this thread from another trade customer of ours and thought it prudent to come back on to clear up a few mistakes and hearsays...

1. No, our rods are not made in China. As clearly stated on our website and all our literature, the forging company is based in Sweden. We do some finishing process here in the UK where required (IE alternate shot blasting finishes) but by and large they are drawn up and specced by us, then manufactured over there.

If anyone has any questions about any technical aspect of any of our products we are only to happy to help. I would ask that you call us on 01376 583030 or better yet, e-mail us at sales@performanceenginecomponents.com as its not always easy for us to dedicate the time to forum posts as much as we would like.

With regards to "common knowledge" and "on forums elsewhere", please refer them to this message.

2. Yes we have experienced a big problem in the last 3 months that caused an unbelieveable amount of greif for us and customers alike.

Long story short, an employee in the afore mentioned forging company (Accounts and invoice dept) took it upon him self to top up his salary with our money, and alot of other companies around the world who put their own branding on the con rods.

To help hide the fraud, he didnt turn any of our orders into production requests and this wasnt picked up on until recently, hence where we were expecting rods in 3/4 weeks, it actually took 2 months.

After a trip to Sweden to work out how best to proceed, we managed to express all rods through production without compromising QC which we are very proud of and we are now very much back in full swing.

On a final note, glad to hear everyone is happy with the quality and service of the products we have provided to them, any questions you know who to call.

K.regards, Dave PEC

Thanks for the info, Dave.

Can you tell us why some people have had tight/wrong bore little ends? I think this was on the 16VT/Integrale rods. Do you produce the rods with different specs?

Secondly, any comments about ovality on the big ends? I'm not sure it was PEC rods that were found by one contributor to suffer from that.

Finally, what do you say about the hardness of your rods? Is Rockwell C36 right for the steel used?

I am asking these questions so that you have an opportunity to answer any accusations that your rods are 'no good' - not because I think they are no good!