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Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1260973
16/09/2011 20:49
16/09/2011 20:49

M
MrT
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MrT
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M



Just a quick update, I've been trying to sort out a roll cage and thought I'd got a decent deal from Balance Motorsport who sent me a link to the website with the agreed discount on, which I couldn't get to work, so I called them up again and the guy I spoke to told me he had reduced all his prices on the site as he wasn't selling a thing and he'll go bust soon shocked I now don't feel very comfortable paying up front for the cage that will take 4 to 6 weeks to arrive, will he still be there?

I think I'll get the tube and build it myself, I've got a pipe bender and notcher, It will obviously just take me longer to do.

The best price I've found so far for 45mm CDS tube is £70 + vat for a 4 metre lenght, does anyone know any better?

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1261174
17/09/2011 20:19
17/09/2011 20:19

J
Jef_uk
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Jef_uk
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J



Are you going to be TIG-ing the roll cadge? No reason It would be stronger than a good MIG weld I suppose but most the neat welds on this sort of stuff are TIG.
If you trust your welding to be at say 100mph upside-down go for it. thumb

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1261280
18/09/2011 11:20
18/09/2011 11:20

M
MrT
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MrT
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M



I'll be using a MIG welder as that's all I've got frown it's a pretty good one though, so I'm confident it can do the job.

I've got my City and Guilds in welding, albeit obtained as an appretice many years ago!!! but I have done a fair bit of welding over the years (I've worked in Bodyshops most of my career) so I'm also confident in my own ability and we've got some good guys at work that I can call on if I'm unsure of anything laugh

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1266965
04/10/2011 23:38
04/10/2011 23:38

T
tricky
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tricky
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T



Interesting one, It'l give you something to do anyway !

Air to water coolers aren't so good at holding temps down at constant speed, thats why most use the air to air I/C as the abundance of ambient air at 60 mph is many times greater than the charge air. What they are better at is slower air speeds and short bursts like drag and sprint etc. Just use ducting to feed the intercooler (and it's exit) in the back of the car. When I say ducting I mean full size not bendy hoses, keep the entrance to the duct around 60% of the area of the I/C and that will be the best you can theoreticly get other than an ice packed charge cooler (which has a tendancy to melt obviously).

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1266966
04/10/2011 23:41
04/10/2011 23:41

T
tricky
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tricky
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T



Forgot to say, a freind has a (not italian I know) twin turbo V6 from a nissan 300 zx for sale complete.

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1267340
05/10/2011 20:25
05/10/2011 20:25

M
MrT
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MrT
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M



Thanks for that advice tricky, very usefull indeed, I've found a few projects on the net relating to air/water coolers and they all seem to point to your conclusing as well.

Before water/air coolers were mentioned, I had thought of having a large box section going straight down the middle of the car (as there won't be any interior anyway) picking up air from ducts at the front and blowing straight onto the cooler.

The other idea is to have two smaller IC's, one either side of the engine at the back being fed by ducts in the rear wings, not sure how the plumbing would work yet though.

I've nearly stripped the interior out now so I can start making some more accurate measurements.

Thanks for the engine offer, but I'll stick to the fiat engine thanks. laugh

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1267900
06/10/2011 23:51
06/10/2011 23:51

T
tricky
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tricky
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T



I don't blame you, maybe we'll fit it in a micra someday tongue

Well ducted intercoolers are always going to be better than non-ducted, even a big open front mount can be improved with a simple shroud to stop the forward coming air 'spilling' over the edges.

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1280740
17/10/2011 22:55
17/10/2011 22:55

T
Trebor
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Trebor
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T



If your planning on the mid engined idea and depending on your funds you might wanna take a look at ''z cars' they do a nice little rear subframe unit allowing you to mount anu engine in the rear of your car not only saving you a shi! load of work but really do look stunning and allowing you to actually make the car go round a track clicky>> http://www.zcars.org.uk/univkit.php

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1280951
18/10/2011 16:34
18/10/2011 16:34

M
MrT
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MrT
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M



Thanks for that Trebor, a nice idea and a lovely bit of kit, but £7476 shocked I'd struggle to find £74.76 at the momment let alone 7.5k frown never mind, part of the fun for me is actualy making the parts anyway so I'd only be cutting out some of the fun crazy

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1281526
19/10/2011 23:17
19/10/2011 23:17
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 9,729
Zele, Belgium
Kayjey Offline
Club Member #10
Kayjey  Offline
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Je suis un Coupé

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 9,729
Zele, Belgium
You might want to put this through a translator, or at least look at the pictures.

http://www.squadra-tuning.nl/autos/categorie/196/auto/198.html

It's a twin-engined GTV, working perfectly now. You might want to steal some ideas from that.

The most difficult aspects (narrowing down to rear/mid conversion) were:
- cooling of the rear engine
- rear suspension calibration
- rear suspension geometry
- brake balance
- limited slip diff

Apart from that THEY (for two engines) are using two gearboxes, two different engines, two ECU's, routed exhaust, two fuel tanks, two ECU's, cruise control (via the ECU, so they're linked and the software in the ECU is adapted as there were a few problems),... etcetera.

Makes for good reading and will surely offer you some extra insights.


- Kayjey -

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: Kayjey] #1282274
21/10/2011 21:00
21/10/2011 21:00

M
MrT
Unregistered
MrT
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted By: Kayjey
You might want to put this through a translator, or at least look at the pictures.

http://www.squadra-tuning.nl/autos/categorie/196/auto/198.html

It's a twin-engined GTV, working perfectly now. You might want to steal some ideas from that.

The most difficult aspects (narrowing down to rear/mid conversion) were:
- cooling of the rear engine
- rear suspension calibration
- rear suspension geometry
- brake balance
- limited slip diff

Apart from that THEY (for two engines) are using two gearboxes, two different engines, two ECU's, routed exhaust, two fuel tanks, two ECU's, cruise control (via the ECU, so they're linked and the software in the ECU is adapted as there were a few problems),... etcetera.

Makes for good reading and will surely offer you some extra insights.


Thanks for the info Kayjey, the pictures are helpful on their own smile I'm pretty confident I've got all my initial problems sorted:-

Cooling I don't think will be an issue with a decent radiator at the front and the heat loss through the pipes to the engine at the rear will be more that enough.

Rear suspension wise I still intend using a fully adjustable top wishbone and coil over connected as per the picture click to enlarge that way it's all nice and compact and I can adjust all angles.

Brake balance can be sorted by using a bias valve for the main system in which I'll use the original brembos and for the hand brake I'll use the original rear caliper (provided it will fit over the front disc) on an additional bracket like the Ferrari we had in the other day
click to enlarge I can also use this caliper with an additional hydraulic hand brake laugh

I'll hopefully do the final measurements at the weekend so I can start cutting crazy

Last edited by MrT; 21/10/2011 21:01.
Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: Kayjey] #1282559
23/10/2011 02:34
23/10/2011 02:34

S
shinyshoes
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shinyshoes
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S



Originally Posted By: Kayjey
It's a twin-engined GTV, working perfectly now. You might want to steal some ideas from that.


Alfa GTV V12...

love

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1282728
23/10/2011 20:13
23/10/2011 20:13

M
MrT
Unregistered
MrT
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted By: shinyshoes
Originally Posted By: Kayjey
It's a twin-engined GTV, working perfectly now. You might want to steal some ideas from that.


Alfa GTV V12...

love


You're going to have to do one shinyshoes laugh

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1282999
24/10/2011 15:43
24/10/2011 15:43

S
shinyshoes
Unregistered
shinyshoes
Unregistered
S



Originally Posted By: MrT
You're going to have to do one shinyshoes laugh


I have been toying with a Coupe project in my head for ages, the engine would be a V8 though...

wink

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1283010
24/10/2011 16:38
24/10/2011 16:38

N
Nobby
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Nobby
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N



Originally Posted By: MrT
Brake balance can be sorted by using a bias valve for the main system in which I'll use the original brembos and for the hand brake I'll use the original rear caliper (provided it will fit over the front disc) on an additional bracket like the Ferrari we had in the other day
click to enlarge I can also use this caliper with an additional hydraulic hand brake laugh

I'll hopefully do the final measurements at the weekend so I can start cutting crazy


The rear calipers do not fit over standard front discs. They are too thick.

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1283103
24/10/2011 20:14
24/10/2011 20:14

M
MrT
Unregistered
MrT
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted By: Nobby
Originally Posted By: MrT
Brake balance can be sorted by using a bias valve for the main system in which I'll use the original brembos and for the hand brake I'll use the original rear caliper (provided it will fit over the front disc) on an additional bracket like the Ferrari we had in the other day
click to enlarge I can also use this caliper with an additional hydraulic hand brake laugh

I'll hopefully do the final measurements at the weekend so I can start cutting crazy


The rear calipers do not fit over standard front discs. They are too thick.


Yes, I had a measure up at the weekend, I had intended modifying the slider to give me the extra width but I'm not sure there's enough metal there now.

If I can't use the originals I may have to try something like these :-Spot Calipers that little concern is a long way off though smile

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1283106
24/10/2011 20:18
24/10/2011 20:18

M
MrT
Unregistered
MrT
Unregistered
M



I've updated the main thread BTW

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1286627
04/11/2011 19:46
04/11/2011 19:46

M
MrT
Unregistered
MrT
Unregistered
M



Just found these Handbrake Calipers. Handbrake problem solved thumb

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1286669
04/11/2011 22:45
04/11/2011 22:45
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
Ferrarist Offline
Enjoying the ride
Ferrarist  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
Great project, have intention to do similar job with Fiat Punto chassis and Alfa 156 2.0Ts engine i had in parts.....


20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1286819
05/11/2011 19:46
05/11/2011 19:46

M
MrT
Unregistered
MrT
Unregistered
M



That would be a good conversion Ferrarist, I always liked the Punto Rally
click to enlarge with one of those shells and the mid mounted 2.0 litre it would go extremely well love especially as it would be so light.

Mind you, the back of mine is getting pretty light laugh click to enlarge The fun you can have with Photoshop wink

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1288253
10/11/2011 18:19
10/11/2011 18:19

J
jonone
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jonone
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J




Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1288296
10/11/2011 21:02
10/11/2011 21:02

M
MrT
Unregistered
MrT
Unregistered
M



Many thanks for that jonone, I have seen a few conversions like this, but they are all hatchbacks and end up with no rear window or big scoops on the roof.

I don't want to spoil the standard lines of the Coupe so I was thingking along the lines of:-

1. Air duct at front of car running along the centre tunnel of the car to the intercooler mounted in front of the engine.

or

2. Twin coolers mounted at the same height as the rear 1/4 lights and then having perspex ducts replacing the original 1/4 lights.

I need to get the engine in place to see which would work the best.

Thanks again for the link though, it certainly gives a few pointers thumb

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1291592
23/11/2011 20:06
23/11/2011 20:06

L
Leckypete
Unregistered
Leckypete
Unregistered
L



A rear wheel drive coupe!
Sounds like a great project.

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1294293
04/12/2011 10:50
04/12/2011 10:50
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
magooagain Offline
Club Member 259
magooagain  Offline
Club Member 259
Forum is my life

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
Looking at the area that you marked in white.Once you remove it how will you then fix the anti-roll bar to that area ? Or are you just going to worry about it later ?
Enjoying the project.



Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1294302
04/12/2011 11:22
04/12/2011 11:22

M
MrT
Unregistered
MrT
Unregistered
M



Hi Magooagain

Glad you're enjoying the project laugh The anti roll bar attaches to the cross member and wishbones as below and I'll be using this as part of the rear frame. I've also decided to use my original front KW coil overs at the back to save a bit of room and use standard struts at the front.

click to enlarge

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1294304
04/12/2011 11:31
04/12/2011 11:31
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
Ferrarist Offline
Enjoying the ride
Ferrarist  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
Great job.....first thing to do when logged in here is to check if there's any updates on this topic.
More picture of any updates welcomed....


20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1294548
05/12/2011 09:28
05/12/2011 09:28
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline
Ex El Presidente
Begbie  Offline
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
MrT, I think MagooAgain meant where are you going to mount the rear of the rollcage if you are cutting the rear wheel arch off


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1294551
05/12/2011 09:49
05/12/2011 09:49
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
magooagain Offline
Club Member 259
magooagain  Offline
Club Member 259
Forum is my life

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
Yes.



Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1294746
05/12/2011 20:26
05/12/2011 20:26

M
MrT
Unregistered
MrT
Unregistered
M



Oops, sorry Magooagain, I feel a bit silly now, it's obvious what you meant now I've read it again rolleyes

You're right though, I'll worry about that bit later, but I'll probably use a wedge shaped box section welded to the side panel and then bolt the cage to that.

Re: Mid Engine Coupe Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1294763
05/12/2011 21:12
05/12/2011 21:12
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
magooagain Offline
Club Member 259
magooagain  Offline
Club Member 259
Forum is my life

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
I should have called it an anti roll cage really, Yes once its all in you should easily find an anchor point.



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