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What you think of this new type lower brace / bar?
#1281322
19/10/2011 15:35
19/10/2011 15:35
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 141 Germany - Berlin
plasticomnium
OP
On a journey
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OP
On a journey
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 141
Germany - Berlin
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Last edited by plasticomnium; 19/10/2011 15:52.
Bravo 20VT Plus, Gtech1, K&N57i, Blueflame 2.75+race cat, OMP strut hi+lo, BC coils, AP brake 328x28
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Re: What you think of this new type lower brace / bar?
[Re: Nigel]
#1281359
19/10/2011 17:06
19/10/2011 17:06
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,678 Warwickshire
gj88
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,678
Warwickshire
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To work properly, a four-point brace needs to include triangulation between the four points in order to prevent a twisting motion. 100% true. That brace is a waste of money. Stick four pencils together at each end and see how much they twist with a small force applied.
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Re: What you think of this new type lower brace / bar?
[Re: gj88]
#1281518
19/10/2011 23:08
19/10/2011 23:08
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,022 ation
szkom
Club member 2000
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Club member 2000
Forum is my life
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,022
ation
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To work properly, a four-point brace needs to include triangulation between the four points in order to prevent a twisting motion. 100% true. That brace is a waste of money. Stick four pencils together at each end and see how much they twist with a small force applied. Even triangulating between the points wouldn't solve the issue. What you want is a bar that picks up on both bolt points of the front wishbone bushes. Couple that with stronger bolts and revised captive nuts and you've got something that should be rock solid. I don't think any of the braces on offer for the coop are as effective as they could be. The stuff in the links us purely cosmetic.
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Re: What you think of this new type lower brace / bar?
[Re: szkom]
#1281939
20/10/2011 21:25
20/10/2011 21:25
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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I don't think any of the braces on offer for the coop are as effective as they could be. Partly true.... A simple, straight brace between the front wishbone mounts makes a noticeable difference to steering precision. However, if the subframe "legs" are capable of moving closer together under acceleration, and further apart under braking, they MUST be capable of deflection in the same direction when cornering hard. IMHO, simply using the two front wishbone mounting points won't give enough stiffness - the front mounts would have to be triangulated to the rear wishbone mount on the opposite side of the subframe. So - instead of I could have built something more like However, the cost would have been close to double the amount I had to charge for the straight brace, which would have made it far less appealing.
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Re: What you think of this new type lower brace / bar?
[Re: szkom]
#1281966
20/10/2011 22:41
20/10/2011 22:41
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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I think the movement comes from the legs twisting in the same plane as the wishbones. Not sure what you mean... The subframe is like a squared 'U' shape, with the "legs" pointing forward and the wishbones mounted on the legs. The current braces simply close the 'U' into a square, thus preventing |__| from becoming \__/ or /__\. However, my brace design cannot prevent \__\ or /__/ - for this, triangulation is the only solution
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Re: What you think of this new type lower brace / bar?
[Re: Nigel]
#1282239
21/10/2011 19:02
21/10/2011 19:02
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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THe other solution is what N technology did in the 156 ST which is a 3ish inch wide flat plat (slightly curved for the pipe) with 4 bolt pick up onto welded pickup on the inner flange of the subframe, effectively giving a triangulated set up - obvioulsy more work then using the wishbone bolts, I'd like to try a brace sometime.
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Re: What you think of this new type lower brace / bar?
[Re: plasticomnium]
#1282515
22/10/2011 23:27
22/10/2011 23:27
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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Only a triangulated set up with straight tie bars would deal with this issue - which may not be such a problem the proposed issue of /_/ is less likely to occur as during cornering the inside wheel will not be generating the same bending moment on the frame as the outside wheel thus the simple tie rod would help distribute the load across the front of the frame. I often wonder about extending the frame forward to the legs dropping down from the x-member (I think the coupe has them), virtually any modern car I have seen has a continuous frame to the front of the car - I guess a sign of the fiat's design age.
wish I could weld!
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Re: What you think of this new type lower brace / bar?
[Re: ]
#1283133
24/10/2011 21:14
24/10/2011 21:14
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 141 Germany - Berlin
plasticomnium
OP
On a journey
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OP
On a journey
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 141
Germany - Berlin
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THe other solution is what N technology did in the 156 ST which is a 3ish inch wide flat plat (slightly curved for the pipe) with 4 bolt pick up onto welded pickup on the inner flange of the subframe, effectively giving a triangulated set up - obvioulsy more work then using the wishbone bolts, I'd like to try a brace sometime. Sounds interesting as race technology always is pioneering new and (hopefully) eficient ways to solve existing problems... do you have a pic of what you describe ?? In your opinion, is it something that could be copied for street use ?? Jochen
Bravo 20VT Plus, Gtech1, K&N57i, Blueflame 2.75+race cat, OMP strut hi+lo, BC coils, AP brake 328x28
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