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coupe handling
#1295424
07/12/2011 22:50
07/12/2011 22:50
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scholesy
Unregistered
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scholesy
Unregistered
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Hi everyone, I'm just looking for a coupe at the moment, mainly because of the brilliant performance figures and startling looks, I wondered what the handling is like on them, is it up to scratch with hot hatches, GTI's and the like?
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1295433
07/12/2011 23:37
07/12/2011 23:37
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scholesy
Unregistered
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scholesy
Unregistered
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by clean I assume you mean carefully, not lifting off to induce understeer and such? Do the cars understeer a lot when cornering or does the LSD really help? Thanks for the reply.
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1295450
08/12/2011 00:08
08/12/2011 00:08
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scholesy
Unregistered
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scholesy
Unregistered
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is there anyone round Peterborough or Stamford, lincolnshire area that has a turbo I could have a ride in? I have a friend with a n/a 20v and it sure sounded lovely, I would like to see the performance difference!
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: szkom]
#1295482
08/12/2011 04:56
08/12/2011 04:56
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,670 SW London
Rudidudi
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,670
SW London
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They are a GT car after all. Bang on, and exactly how i describe the coup.
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1295539
08/12/2011 10:12
08/12/2011 10:12
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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The coupe is a very agile car. Even on stock suspension. I have recently replaced all the dampers and springs on 2 cars for stock suspension and it transformed them both.
Aged suspension is the cause for the so called bad handling coupe.
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1295546
08/12/2011 10:23
08/12/2011 10:23
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 9,729 Zele, Belgium
Kayjey
Club Member #10
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Club Member #10
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 9,729
Zele, Belgium
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by clean I assume you mean carefully, not lifting off to induce understeer and such? Do the cars understeer a lot when cornering or does the LSD really help? Thanks for the reply. It means the car will just not like it when you trash it round bumpy corners. Which is most corners on the open road. If you want to have genuine fun (on a track of course...), you don't just flick it into corners. It's like rally driving vs. F1 style clean lines. With the Coupe, if you want to set a fast time, you have to get the speed spot on, both on entry into a corner as well as when exiting a corner. Get it spot on and you will feel the car is extremely well belanced - when it slides, it'll slide over its 4 wheels. If you don't get it right and you have to / can accelerate after entering a corner, you'll lose the balance and it'll understeer slightly. If the bushes at the rear or the trailing arms are worn, you run the chance of snap oversteer. There is one thing Coupe's don't like: bumps in corners. If the road is bad, you'll feel the (standard, but also most uprated) suspension doesn't filter it out enough and you can feel the chassis getting a bit 'detached'. If you hit a big smooth bump in a corner, the car might throw its rear end out - but in a controllable way.
- Kayjey -
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1295551
08/12/2011 10:32
08/12/2011 10:32
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057 Southsea
Gunzi
Club member 189, Former Club President
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Club member 189, Former Club President
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
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I find the slow in fast out approach works well. You can accelerate mid corner and feel the nose tuck in, rather than wash wide, as the visco unit works it's magic. It's an odd sensation frankly!
I'd agree with John, most coupes will still be on their original springs and dampers, I know mine is, and these will be well past thier best. If you don't fancy lowered suspension then renewing these with OE items will no doubt improve the handling no end.
I wouldn't expect a standard 20VT to have the handling of say a mk5 Golf GTI. That said they can be made to handle very well, Nigel won the TOTB handling FWD class for 3 years on the trot, and was up against much lighter cars.
Last edited by Gunzi; 08/12/2011 10:33.
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1295596
08/12/2011 13:12
08/12/2011 13:12
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DanielTheManual
Unregistered
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DanielTheManual
Unregistered
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I had a brand new VW Polo as a courtesy car this year, and the ride and handling were sadly a lot better than the Coupe's.
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1295636
08/12/2011 15:21
08/12/2011 15:21
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scholesy
Unregistered
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scholesy
Unregistered
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thanks for all the input on the subjects guys, nice to see a forum where owners can criticise the car and discuss its faults. I think it is best if I can try a coupe before I go any further, time to trawl the local dealers for a testdrive!
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: Gunzi]
#1295638
08/12/2011 15:30
08/12/2011 15:30
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MikeRoss
Unregistered
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MikeRoss
Unregistered
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I find the slow in fast out approach works well. You can accelerate mid corner and feel the nose tuck in, rather than wash wide, as the visco unit works it's magic. It's an odd sensation frankly!. I agree. It is weird how putting on the power seems to tug you into the corners. Don't try it in the wet though
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1295647
08/12/2011 15:56
08/12/2011 15:56
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,192 Bristol, UK
Hovedan
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,192
Bristol, UK
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I find the slow in fast out approach works well. You can accelerate mid corner and feel the nose tuck in, rather than wash wide, as the visco unit works it's magic. It's an odd sensation frankly!. I agree. It is weird how putting on the power seems to tug you into the corners. Don't try it in the wet though Not when you're on the raggedy edge on track does it tuck in!!
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: Nigel]
#1295770
08/12/2011 21:23
08/12/2011 21:23
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griffster
Unregistered
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griffster
Unregistered
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Nigel - what would be the first modest upgrades you would recommend to inprove handling without loss of compliance / comfort on back-road driving for a 20vt6 / Plus (c 300bhp)
Would you suggest upgrded bushing anywhere? - Playing with adj camber? - Different sized wheels / tyres?
What springs and dampers would be next upgrade?
I am not looking for a scuttle shaking ride, nor necessarily geatly improved grip, simply non scary handling when you lean on it a tad, and not relying on trail braking / power lift off to cancel out u/s / induce oversteer - c 30% better than a GT-6 would be nice
Also like to avoid any set-ups that dont improve handling of mid corner frighteners such as camber change, severe undulation, simple med pothole
Car will mainly be used on back roads, no circuits or high speed motorway 'heroics'
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1295774
08/12/2011 21:40
08/12/2011 21:40
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057 Southsea
Gunzi
Club member 189, Former Club President
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Club member 189, Former Club President
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
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Upper strut brace as a first handling mod. I've got one and it makes a big difference to the way the front end feels. Make sure the wishbones, track rod ends and ARB drop links are in good condition too. Changing worn items to new ones make the front end much more compliant.
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1295791
08/12/2011 23:03
08/12/2011 23:03
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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well pointed out kayjey
as for chassis flex though that can be improved greatly by the welded subframes which sorts the front end out nicely
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1295797
08/12/2011 23:16
08/12/2011 23:16
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,486 London Tan
technics
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,486
London Tan
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Can anyone do the front subframe welding, apart from cc as I need someone more local?
Now in the 400+ bhp club!
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1295799
08/12/2011 23:18
08/12/2011 23:18
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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why more local if you want one technics il bring one back next time i go up which will be soon
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1295805
08/12/2011 23:27
08/12/2011 23:27
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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ask him mate. as for collection you could meet me at a services when im traveling back down
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1296006
09/12/2011 19:44
09/12/2011 19:44
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,477 Birmingham City Centre!
MattyB
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,477
Birmingham City Centre!
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is there anyone round Peterborough or Stamford, lincolnshire area that has a turbo I could have a ride in? I have a friend with a n/a 20v and it sure sounded lovely, I would like to see the performance difference! I was reading this and thinking "Who's got a 20v around here?!" Then I realised that's me! Good luck with the search Will!
Ex Coupe Owner - Unfortunate Peugeot driver!
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: MattyB]
#1296009
09/12/2011 19:53
09/12/2011 19:53
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831 Haslemere, Surrey
Mark_S
Forum is my job
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Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831
Haslemere, Surrey
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Fitting a front strut brace made a massive improvement in directional stability. Lowering transformed the corning
997 C4S
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1296020
09/12/2011 20:40
09/12/2011 20:40
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Nigel - what would be the first modest upgrades you would recommend to inprove handling without loss of compliance / comfort on back-road driving for a 20vt6 / Plus (c 300bhp)
Would you suggest upgrded bushing anywhere? - Playing with adj camber? - Different sized wheels / tyres?
What springs and dampers would be next upgrade?
Almost all handling mods will reduce compliance or make a compromise somewhere In my opinion, to make a Coupe handling sharp and predictable, you'll need the following 1) Upper strut brace 2) Lower subframe brace (or weld the subframe) 3) Lowering springs and uprated shocks (billies and Eibachs are the most common choice here, but there are others - I have Osrav and Eibachs) 4) Poly-bushed front wishbones 5) Uprated rear anti-roll bar (don't bother with the front) 22mm will transform the car - 24mm will make it even better, but it'll start to get a bit 'pointy' 6) 1 degree of negative camber 7) the best tyres you can afford This setup is very close to my own - I've spent a long time (and a few quid) getting my car so that it's perfectly bearable on a 500-mile motorway slog, but also very stable and predictable round the twisties
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1296506
11/12/2011 17:48
11/12/2011 17:48
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griffster
Unregistered
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griffster
Unregistered
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Thanks Nigel, that pretty much follows my feeling for a common sense route - however not sure what best compromise on wheel size & tyre spec (width / profile)
Who would be in your top 3 specialists prefered for fitting and set-up
Have you found that you need 1 deg neg on rear too, or just front to unsettle rear a tad on turn in together with ARB upgrade? - Presumably these are after market adj wishbones / mounts? - What spring rates and lowering F/R would you suggest for the Eibachs for pleasant road only handling?
What would be your min recommendation for brake upgrade - pads only all round for the Plus? - front only stainless flexibles to get some innitial bite at the front?
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1296512
11/12/2011 18:12
11/12/2011 18:12
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proccy
Unregistered
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proccy
Unregistered
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Who would be in your top 3 specialists preferred for fitting and set-up
His wife has to ring Motormech to get to speak to Nigel
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1296515
11/12/2011 18:41
11/12/2011 18:41
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Who would be in your top 3 specialists prefered for fitting and set-up
Proccy has it right - it won't be long before I get my own door keys.... Motormech has a permanent loan of my rather expensive camber gauge, so Paul has the correct kit to set up the front end. Have you found that you need 1 deg neg on rear too, No - keep the rear standard - changing it would be hugely expensive and would require custom engineering. The rear isn't a problem anyway Presumably these are after market adj wishbones / mounts? No - wishbones and topmounts are standard - There's a couple of methods of getting negative camber on the front - the easiest way is with camber bolts What spring rates and lowering F/R would you suggest for the Eibachs for pleasant road only handling? No idea - I don't believe that Eibach offer a choice of spring rates - the normal Eibach springs are fine What would be your min recommendation for brake upgrade - pads only all round for the Plus? - front only stainless flexibles to get some innitial bite at the front? Pagid Blue for everyday use, and HEL stainless braided hoses (make sure you get the extra-long hose which runs from the caliper all the way to the inner arch union - it replaces the solid pipe from the caliper to the strut)
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1298163
17/12/2011 03:26
17/12/2011 03:26
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scholesy
Unregistered
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scholesy
Unregistered
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thanks for your opinions everyone, I bought DanDan's 20vt in the end. Absolutely loving it so far and think it might be a rare long termer for me. (longest I have had a car is exactly one year)
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1300554
27/12/2011 19:29
27/12/2011 19:29
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griffster
Unregistered
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griffster
Unregistered
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thanks - i see the fcc springs are prefered as a road compomise.
I hate a car that 'crashes' over poor road surfaces or is likely to judder the dash frequently so concerned the Eibachs or the new coil overs to be a step too far?
Prefer to keep sidewall as deep as possible for same reason - what tyre spec would be suited to spirited comfortable back road driving? - I appreciate such a set up will be a compromise, but regretably I suspect my Brands days are behind me.
Would consider 17 inch for aesthetics and bigger possible contact patch if comfort is not compromised when appropriate tyre spec is selected
what tyre specs for both rim sizes given comfort / performance compromise - I would prefer max sidewall profile that is sensible - 55? - Bear in mind springs will be dropped to Eibach or FCC level
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1300558
27/12/2011 19:50
27/12/2011 19:50
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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griffster - Eibachs can be fine, as long as the damping is correct. This is why Eibachs on standard shocks is not a good idea - the damping is simply too weak to control the firmer spring
I would advise against mucking around with tyre profiles - you'll make your speedo inaccurate. Stock to 205/50 16, 225/45/16 or 215/40/17
I run Eibachs on Osrav shocks and 40-profile tyres on 17" rims. Although the ride is firm, its definitely not uncomfortable or jiggly. On very bumpy roads, it can get a bit annoying, but then if I wanted supreme comfort on bumpy roads, I would have kept Wifey's air-sprung P38 Range Rover
If you're ever in the Midlands, I'd be happy to take you out for a spin, just to show what a decent suspension setup can feel like
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1300560
27/12/2011 20:00
27/12/2011 20:00
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griffster
Unregistered
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griffster
Unregistered
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Thanks for lightning response, I am near Corby Northants, where are you based?
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: Nigel]
#1300636
28/12/2011 00:44
28/12/2011 00:44
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,034 Sweden
Per
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,034
Sweden
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griffster - Eibachs can be fine, as long as the damping is correct. This is why Eibachs on standard shocks is not a good idea - the damping is simply too weak to control the firmer spring
I would advise against mucking around with tyre profiles - you'll make your speedo inaccurate. Stock to 205/50 16, 225/45/16 or 215/40/17 I'd agree on that, and plus that fine 225/35-18 alternative. Also agree on the Eibach's, not much wrong with them, but the problem with the std dampers is not so much weakness as wrong spectrum. Lower a std Coupe and the shocks are in full-load-mode, hence HARSH. The Bilstein B6 or Osrav's have a wider/lower 'normal load' range and so, comfier. Also; when swapping shocks, do please mind the length of the front shock cylinders. In the case of the Bilsteins they are much longer than std, making the Coupe sit on it's rubber bump stops. THAT is crashy, but surprisingly common.. Very easy fix though; cut them rubbers a bit. Also 2; on my car the battery-move-to-the-rear actually made a greater improvement than the famous strutbrace. (yes you probably have to try it to believe it) And the lower strutbrace did even greater effect, though it is a good idea to mod it a bit. It's too often too close to road obstacles, I read.
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1300696
28/12/2011 13:50
28/12/2011 13:50
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griffster
Unregistered
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griffster
Unregistered
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yes i was thinking of moving batt to ns rear
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1311625
29/01/2012 21:42
29/01/2012 21:42
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T460BFJ
Unregistered
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T460BFJ
Unregistered
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Hi there I have a coupe and in grimsby has kw suspension on and updated turbo your more than welcome to come try!
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1319601
25/02/2012 21:44
25/02/2012 21:44
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THE_G
Unregistered
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THE_G
Unregistered
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useful thread , do we have a condensed version of a basic and clear list of coupes suspension upgrades ? much like nigel just posted and more detail about subframe welding ?
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1319613
25/02/2012 22:31
25/02/2012 22:31
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057 Southsea
Gunzi
Club member 189, Former Club President
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Club member 189, Former Club President
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
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Re: coupe handling
[Re: ]
#1319614
25/02/2012 22:47
25/02/2012 22:47
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THE_G
Unregistered
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THE_G
Unregistered
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yep things like that gunzi cheers
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