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Decision time... #1342443
12/05/2012 15:50
12/05/2012 15:50
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,794
Berlin
barnacle Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline OP
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Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,794
Berlin
Most of you probably know of my 16NA by reputation if not in person...

- I've had it since new, coming up 17 years now.
- It's CAT-C having been squished into a landrover while stationary by a Dozy Bint [tm] some years ago, and it's been rear-ended more recently by a Dozy Bloke [tm] - the rear end is not exactly square at the moment.
- 160k miles, 90k of them on this engine which was second hand and of uncertain vintage when it was fitted in 2003 after the first engine got lunched on Christmas Eve, halfway up Glencoe... not the best of times!
- Oil pressure is over two bar idling - after half an hour thrashing it around Spa - so the engine is in excellent condition.
- The roof and rear quarters are suffering *severe* paint degradation, including spalling back to the bare metal in one place, which now has surface rust.
- Although it passed the MOT a month ago, it's apparent that there is rust in the floor-pan - some has had to be repaired before - and it will require further welding before the next MOT. There's also rust in all the usual places: inside side edges of the boot, chips around the bonnet, rear wheel arches, and the front suspension towers.

For obvious reasons, I'd like to keep this car. However, in a perfect world it needs a bare-metal dip'n'strip fix and rebuild, to bring it back as close as possible to how it came from Fiat. But at present, I don't have the cash... and if I did, there's no doubt that in any rational sense it's not worth it - it'll cost between £5-10k depending what is done.

So I'm looking for suggestions. As I see it there are a few:

  • Do nothing. Car squeaks through next MOT with a little welding, and then collapses in a heap of rust one fine day.
  • Cheap top half respray to at least get it looking better and possibly able to survive the winter; wait and see what the next MOT fails on and decide then.
  • Somewhat more expensive surgery and respray to get the obvious bodywork flaws sorted.
  • Complete strip and repair (which I can't afford)
  • Dry storage for a year or so while I save some dosh, and then recovery
  • Sell or scrap it


Any other suggestions/ advice?

What to do, what to do?
single choice
Votes accepted starting: 12/05/2012 15:50
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342454
12/05/2012 16:05
12/05/2012 16:05

M
mrnick2812
Unregistered
mrnick2812
Unregistered
M



how about donating the engine to keep mine on the road...lol

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342455
12/05/2012 16:13
12/05/2012 16:13
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,700
burning oil in the alfa
whatmoretyres Offline
Forum is my job
whatmoretyres  Offline
Forum is my job

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,700
burning oil in the alfa
Neil, that car's never been about being sensible or you'd have scrapped it in the bint accident.

You really need to get it sorted out properly and keep it another 17years. It's a family heirloom!


Smart Fitness and GPS seller tongue
Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342476
12/05/2012 17:33
12/05/2012 17:33

B
Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
B



you can't kill it, that would be like killing one of your children.

And how would you gloat about the brilliance of the 16v na without one??

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342483
12/05/2012 18:03
12/05/2012 18:03
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,747
N.E Scotland
mattB Offline
Club member 6
mattB  Offline
Club member 6
I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,747
N.E Scotland
You could spray it yourself with a rattle can to at least prevent further rust then decide after next MOT.

I've accepted mine will die of rust in the not too distant future and I'll probably throw in the towel at that point. It's only a 20VT and I could re-shell it, but dont suppose you'd look at entertaining that idea? Probably struggle to find one in good enough condition to make it worth while anyway.......

If you can keep it out of use over winter then that might help to stop any further deterioration.


Death-rattle-tastic
Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342484
12/05/2012 18:09
12/05/2012 18:09
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Nigel  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
I'm in a similar boat - my 16v (which I've only had for a year, but I'm already strangely attached to it) needs some work. I can't afford it either, but I will keep the car and have it done eventually.

Looking at it purely objectively, you should scrap it without a moment's hesitation. Even in pristine condition, it's worth maybe £2.5k - £3k to a collector.

However, how many of us own Coupes to be objective about them? The majority of us lavish far more attention and money on these cars that they'll ever be worth, even when it reaches classic status (which BTW, I'm firmly of the belief that the 16v N/A will get there first, followed by the 16vt, then the LE)

You'll regret selling it forever. If cash is tight, park it up somewhere dry and mothball it until the money is there.

I can't see how it would take £10k to put it right without going super-anal about the rebuild - less than £5k should get it to a condition where it would walk away with an Auto Italia concours gong.

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342488
12/05/2012 18:41
12/05/2012 18:41

R
RobShed
Unregistered
RobShed
Unregistered
R



As Polled.
Do nothing but drive and enjoy with reasonable service consumables.
At time of next MOT test, re-appraise depending on what it needs/costs to pass.
In a nutshell, drive the icon 'till it drops.

May also be worth keeping an eye out for that incredible, low miles, dry-stored 'find' though or even a non-forced 2000/2001 5-pot or VIS.

Move on when the icon is dead and find a new daily love.

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342491
12/05/2012 18:47
12/05/2012 18:47
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,794
Berlin
barnacle Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,794
Berlin
If I do it, Nigel, it will be a complete everything off shell strip and make-good - either bead/shell blast or acid dip at Surface Processing http://www.surfaceprocessing.co.uk/index.html ... I suspect that the latter will not be cheap though I need to get some prices.

Either way it means everything out and the labour associated thereof, and the storage of all the bits, and the replacement of damaged bits, and the putting it back together... I don't have local facilities, which doesn't add to the low price!

Storage on the other hand looks about eight quid a week.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342523
12/05/2012 20:57
12/05/2012 20:57

J
jonjeffryes
Unregistered
jonjeffryes
Unregistered
J



Neil,

What about a sympathetic rolling restoration? This is just part of running a 'classic' - something the coupe' is on ths cusp of becoming.

I've run my Porsche on this basis for years and it's now nearly 30 years old and still going strong

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342548
12/05/2012 22:40
12/05/2012 22:40
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,180
Sheffield
X19_pilot Offline
Enjoying the ride
X19_pilot  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,180
Sheffield
I am with jonjeffryes on this, of course it depends on your finances, but it is so easy to hang on to a car with the intention of getting it back on the road, but running costs of another car would hinder your saving, and would possibly take longer than intended to get her back on the road. In the mean time, the pipes/bushes/tyres/suspension etc decay through lack of use and you need to dig deeper to get the car back on the road.

I know... My first car, which I would never sell, is sat in a garage awaiting the same treatment, but funding the coupe means she is unlikely to see light of day for a couple years! frown

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342550
12/05/2012 22:45
12/05/2012 22:45
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,794
Berlin
barnacle Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,794
Berlin
It's one I'd considered - but whatever happens, it needs that half-spray urgently, and that means it's even longer till I can afford to do it properly.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342552
12/05/2012 22:49
12/05/2012 22:49

D
dlongstaff
Unregistered
dlongstaff
Unregistered
D



If you scrap the coupe what you going to replace it with?
Would you be done with coupes altogether?

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342562
12/05/2012 23:10
12/05/2012 23:10
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,794
Berlin
barnacle Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,794
Berlin
I think it's pretty certain that the coupe isn't going to scrapped if there's even a possibility of keeping it on the road - that is, unless another 'dozy' incident occurs and takes it to a cat B, I'm keeping it.

My concern about fixing it piecemeal is that it will end up like the Forth Bridge... sorting the visible bits is easy and quick and not that expensive, but to sort out the deep-rooted stuff before it's too late to fix needs some heavy lifting.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342567
12/05/2012 23:18
12/05/2012 23:18
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,336
Selby
Mansilla Offline
My job on the forum
Mansilla  Offline
My job on the forum

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,336
Selby
I vote for store it and then do it properly later. I think it would be great if you did go for the mega-anal, better than new restoration standard. I suspect that if you do limp it along you will achieve two things

1. Falling out of love with it because of how it looks / drives / behaves
2. Accelerating its current deterioration

There is no point in trying to rationalise the cost, because it is by definition irrational. But its not about value, or cost. Its about feelings, and history. You can't put a price on them.


1. Think of something witty and urbane
2. Imagine it written here
Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342575
12/05/2012 23:30
12/05/2012 23:30
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,581
London
MrCooper Offline
I need some sleep
MrCooper  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,581
London
How will he feel when a little barnacle wants a wedding paying for and daddy has blown the lot on some old car.

My advice is take route one and in the future get a classic.



Ex Grigio Moon 20VT Plus
Ex 350Z
Now Aston Martin Vantage

Re: Decision time... [Re: MrCooper] #1342581
12/05/2012 23:49
12/05/2012 23:49
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,947
North wales
pinin_prestatyn Offline
Forum veteran
pinin_prestatyn  Offline
Forum veteran

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,947
North wales
It's not just 'some old car' though is it Steve? After 17 years in the family, I think it's more than that now. I'm sure little Barnacle would understand as his reception is held in Maccie D's laugh
I'm happy to donate a tenner to 'Barnacle's 16V Resto fund' are there others? You could then make a large donation to charity when funds are better and everyone would feel goooood (and we'd have a mint coupé to ogle) love



Coopless!
Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342603
13/05/2012 01:50
13/05/2012 01:50
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 730
t0m0 Offline
Enjoying the ride
t0m0  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 730
Two options, either do nothing which is very sensible
or have the lot done top notch but even then the rot will probably come back much sooner than you expect! (if its in the inner sills ie below the seatbelt housing you have basically had it!)

If you want to save it you might be better trying to find a new bare shell or at least an old near mint one and putting your good bits on it....i have considered doing this with mine in a few years, Im sure Joe (cc) will have a good few bits to build what you want.

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342615
13/05/2012 08:40
13/05/2012 08:40

J
julian
Unregistered
julian
Unregistered
J



Sadly there comes a time to to say good bye, scrap it !

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342618
13/05/2012 08:41
13/05/2012 08:41
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,794
Berlin
barnacle Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,794
Berlin
Well, the mini-he-barnacle has already produced a grandbarnacle, and the mini-she-barnacle is living la vida loca in Rio and can manage her own wedding, thank you very much (assuming she ever gets around to finding a boyfriend). Barnacle is more worried about retirement than weddings!

Reshelling kind of defeats the point of doing it - there's not a lot apart from the shell and the glass that's original by now, so in that case I may as well hunt out one of the very low mileage models and just buy that. But I don't want *a* coupe; I want *this* coupe. Irrational, but there you go!


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342630
13/05/2012 09:36
13/05/2012 09:36
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,288
West Berks
skinflint Offline
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,288
West Berks
I could do with some of those plugs at the bottom of the wipers. Also is the battery any good?


Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342643
13/05/2012 10:24
13/05/2012 10:24
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,904
Poland
deannn_20VT Offline
My life on the forum
deannn_20VT  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,904
Poland
As much as I hate saying it - scrap it and get another one. You know you that these days you can get one for 50p wink

Maybe it's time to upgrade to a turbo? laugh

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342648
13/05/2012 10:37
13/05/2012 10:37
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,794
Berlin
barnacle Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,794
Berlin
Cheeky bugger. You *know* I've had a 20vt...


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342649
13/05/2012 10:37
13/05/2012 10:37
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,614
Bucks
jame5 Offline
I need some sleep
jame5  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,614
Bucks
I am sure between us we could all help out with parts storage and labour if you go down the dip and strip route. How about getting a load of us round and doing a 'sixty minute make over' hehe a few angle grinders and some hammerite and she'll be good for another year or two?


Re: Decision time... [Re: skinflint] #1342651
13/05/2012 10:41
13/05/2012 10:41

D
Duffy
Unregistered
Duffy
Unregistered
D



Keep it dry and safe, restore it when money permits, spend the time between bargain hunting the new bits you will need.

Firstly it's more than just a car to you, secondly it's hugely satisfying to do these things properly.

We don't run these Coupes because they make any sort of fiscal sense.

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342654
13/05/2012 10:43
13/05/2012 10:43
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,207
ation
szkom Offline
Club member 2000
szkom  Offline
Club member 2000
Forum is my life

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,207
ation
I can sympathise with your position. My 205gti is exactly the same. I've had it a number of years now and had some good times with it. But it's starting to get fragile. I had intended to strip the car and get a full bare metal rework done but time has stopped that for now.

I've been trying to restore as I go and would like to think that it is working. I just need to do the rear bushes and the suspension is new, I've sorted the electrics (i have full heater speed) and my engine is strong.

If you want irrational, I've bought another engine so I can refurb mine and keep the numbers matching.

The way I think about it, is that it's a hobby and they cost money. If I were a good golfist it would cost far more than an old Peugeot.



Re: Decision time... [Re: jame5] #1342692
13/05/2012 13:14
13/05/2012 13:14
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,288
West Berks
skinflint Offline
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,288
West Berks
Originally Posted by jame5
How about getting a load of us round and doing a 'sixty minute make over' hehe a few angle grinders and some hammerite and she'll be good for another year or two?

rofl rofl

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342716
13/05/2012 15:05
13/05/2012 15:05

J
johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
J



What about making another Picoupe?

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342803
13/05/2012 20:06
13/05/2012 20:06

J
jonjeffryes
Unregistered
jonjeffryes
Unregistered
J



keep it Neil,

running rebuild to keep all the oily bits sweet...and allow you to continue to enjoy the car.... and if you worry it has too much corrosion, nip over to Alfa155. org and take a look at what they regularly put back together (basically a similar floor plan as well).

Re: Decision time... [Re: barnacle] #1342835
13/05/2012 21:27
13/05/2012 21:27

J
JKD
Unregistered
JKD
Unregistered
J



barnacle, as well as your own personal attachment to the car, you know that the 16VNA is just too seminal a car to get rid of! It deserves a full restoration! smile

Re: Decision time... [Re: ] #1342838
13/05/2012 21:37
13/05/2012 21:37

M
madchester16
Unregistered
madchester16
Unregistered
M



Sounds to me like you've already made up your own mind Neil... you want to keep her.

If you can do a rolling restoration, still drive her and achieve the long term goal of removing any rot, then great, go for that.

If not, store and wait for your finances to reach enough do a proper restoration job... look at that Red Devil of Patches that Joe restored... not sure if your NA is in worse condition than that (sounds like it might be) but it shows what can be achieved.


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