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Legal advise
#1343613
16/05/2012 11:03
16/05/2012 11:03
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829 kidderminster
nick_d
OP
My life on the forum
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OP
My life on the forum
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829
kidderminster
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Regarding bayliff charge. I know I should have paid the parking ticket but it completely slipped my mind with the mrs being preggers an all that! Bayliff called at mine at early hours, so got up to hand delivered letter, stating If I didn't contact within 24 hours then they may remove my vehicle (work can)... Fair enough! Then go outside and my van is clamped, do call the number and speak to bayliff to find my £25 parking ticket has come to a final total of £370.24..... I obviously need my van for work and had to pay to get clamp removed, but this was there very first visit and NO charges for recovery vehicle would have applied as they gave me 24 hours to contact them. This seems very excessive to me? Nick
368bhp @ 1.5 bar
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1343615
16/05/2012 11:07
16/05/2012 11:07
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Who was the parking ticket originally issued by?
Ross
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1343618
16/05/2012 11:22
16/05/2012 11:22
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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Two questions:
1. Has there been a CCJ against you in respect of this matter?
2. You say the van is a "work" one - does this mean it is owned by your employer?
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1343639
16/05/2012 12:17
16/05/2012 12:17
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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OK, the first thing you have to do is get on top of this and understand what has happened so far. This means finding all of the letters and reading them, however painful this may be.
Until you understand what you're being charged for you've got little chance of appealing against the fees.
The bailiffs can (and will) charge you for any letters they've sent you, and for visiting you and for clamping and releasing your vehicle.
Once you understand all of the charges that have been levied then you're probably best talking to the CAB about them. I'd say that the chances are that they are correct and paying a solicitor to draft a letter is going to be (a) expensive and (b) pointless.
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1343654
16/05/2012 13:10
16/05/2012 13:10
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831 Haslemere, Surrey
Mark_S
Forum is my job
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Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831
Haslemere, Surrey
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Assuming that you were no illegally parked outside you house, I can't see what justification there is for clamping your vehicle until you have failed to respond to their ultimately letter. After that all bets would be off. Meanwhile. inteferring with your vehicle sounds illegal (just my layman's opinion)
997 C4S
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1343672
16/05/2012 13:45
16/05/2012 13:45
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,731 Surrey
Emjay
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,731
Surrey
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Nick, AndrewR is giving you some sensible advice.
You are not being asked to look at letters from the bailiffs. Bailiffs are agents. You are asked to root out all the letters relating to this, and you said you had had a load of them.
Without knowing what you have actually been sent, there is nothing else to sensibly suggest. All people can do on this thead is speculate. Relying upon it could costly.
Solicitors are expensive and in this case a likely false economy.
Does our law condemn a man without first hearing him to find out what he has been doing? (John 7:51)
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1343683
16/05/2012 14:10
16/05/2012 14:10
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,568 Northampton England
Sedicivalvole
Club member 2092
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Club member 2092
Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,568
Northampton England
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Bailiffs are legalised thief's.
You can attempt the complaints procedure but my friends mother, having caught a bailiff lying repeatedly and proving via CCTV he never visited the house was unable to get him struck off. At the time and to my knowledge no bailiff has ever been properly disciplined or struck off.
As I say, legalised thugs. Once you are dealing with them its trouble.
Vinci Grey LE Alfa 147 GTA 3.2 V6 BMW E92 M3 4.0 V8 Fiat Tipo Sedicivalvole 2.0 16v ABS
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: Sedicivalvole]
#1343686
16/05/2012 14:16
16/05/2012 14:16
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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As I say, legalised thugs. Once you are dealing with them its trouble.
Which kind of begs the question, to get to this point, you must have done this parking offense months ago? Hope you get it sorted mate, but if you parked where you shouldn't have, ignored the letters for payment and bailiff's got involved, it looks like you'll not get any money back. Ross
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1343724
16/05/2012 15:32
16/05/2012 15:32
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,568 Northampton England
Sedicivalvole
Club member 2092
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Club member 2092
Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,568
Northampton England
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Yes. You will do well to even get them to give you an itemised bill. They will just ignore you.
Knowing full well that it will cost you more to force them to hand over the paperwork.
Vinci Grey LE Alfa 147 GTA 3.2 V6 BMW E92 M3 4.0 V8 Fiat Tipo Sedicivalvole 2.0 16v ABS
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1343734
16/05/2012 16:14
16/05/2012 16:14
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Your right Ross it shouldn't have got this far. Nick Didn't mean to come across dick-ish mate. Ross
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1343781
16/05/2012 18:27
16/05/2012 18:27
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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Nick_d -
while I just enjoy the appropriate name,
I have heard of people ignoring the "bailiff's" fees and just paying off the original debt. Apparently, it has been know to work.
Oh, and it sounds to me as if you have had a visit from debt collectors - not bailiffs. Councils employ them to recover the debt. Bailiffs are used subsequently (further down the line) to obtain material compensation for the debt if all else fails.
Try paying the council what you originally owed them.
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: ]
#1343787
16/05/2012 18:54
16/05/2012 18:54
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829 kidderminster
nick_d
OP
My life on the forum
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OP
My life on the forum
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829
kidderminster
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I already payed the 370 though as I needed clamp off the van....... Nick_d is very apt I suppose! Nick
368bhp @ 1.5 bar
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1343881
16/05/2012 22:55
16/05/2012 22:55
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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Start again - your vehicle was parked legally, and they clamped it as a response to an existing debt?
Is this legal? I thought the debtor had to win a court case against you before collecting or impounding anything of yours. That's when the real bailiffs come in to recover the amount ordered by the court.
Mark_S was correct, I believe, but the additional point is that if it is about an existing debt, I am pretty sure it is not legal to clamp anything until a court case has been won.
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1343893
16/05/2012 23:48
16/05/2012 23:48
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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This is why it's important to open the letters and find out what's happened so far.
Agents acting as debt collectors have no special significance. All they can do is knock on your door, hope you answer and then ask you for money. There are industry rules about their conduct (for example, they must not be persuing a debt you dispute), but basically they can be treated in exactly the same fashion as you'd treat me if I knocked on your door and asked you for the £500 you owe me.
Bailiffs persuing civil claims are a somewhat more serious matter and they're normally supported by a county court or magistrates' court judgement. They can clamp any vehicle for which the DVLA has you recorded as the registered keeper when it's on the public road, with a clamping order from a magistrates' court they can clamp vehicles owned by you which are parked on private land and they can legally enter your property, providing that they do not have to use force or cause damage to do so. So if, for example, your front door isn't locked they can walk in and start helping themselves to your stuff.
If the bailiffs are persuing monies related to a criminal matter (e.g. non-payment of council tax) they can break into your house and can use reasonable force to gain entry. I believe that in many such cases because they have a legal right of entry they bring along a police officer.
Anyway, having a vehicle parked outside your house is easy money for them. They can clamp it before you're on to them and they know that many people will stump up there and then, as our OP demonstrates.
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1343956
17/05/2012 10:34
17/05/2012 10:34
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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Andrew - I take it you were trying to write 'pursue'. But yes, I believe we have some agreement. It seems ridiculous that clamping someone's legally parked car in pursuit of an existing debt should be legal. There would have to be a court order to authorise any such activity. As you observe, we have no idea whether such a beast exists. So it's the CAB for you, my lad, with all your correspondence, and try not to get Nick_d again! Run along now, you cheeky rascal, before I clip your ear for you and tell your dad!
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1343964
17/05/2012 10:53
17/05/2012 10:53
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Nobby
Unregistered
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Nobby
Unregistered
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Hope you get it sorted Nick!
Quick question whilst we are on the subject. I keep getting letters sent to my house for the previous owner (we bought it in Mar 2011).
I know for a fact that some of them are debt letters/unpaid fees/hastening ones. I haven't opened any! but I've held some up to the light and you can read some of them.
I simply put them all back in the post box with 'No longer at this address, return to sender'. The previous owner has never forwarded any mail and although his friend 'popped' round once to see if there was any mail I've never heard from him.
Whats the deal if someone turns up at my door demanding money from me. Can I just prove my ID and they will bugger off?
Cheers Chris
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: ]
#1343965
17/05/2012 10:54
17/05/2012 10:54
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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Andrew - I take it you were trying to write 'pursue'. And after I've bitten my lip to avoid this becoming a spelling-flame thread. It's all Microsoft's fault - when I'm at home I use Opera to read the forum, and it helpfully spell-checks my posts as I type them. However, for some reason it's thrown a wobbler with this forum and now refuses to load a skin for it, so I don't get to see the lovely salmon-pink screen, just a mess of links. So I switched to using IE for the forum at home, and then forgot that it doesn't highlight my intellectual deficiencies. So, it's all Microsoft's fault for not being as good as Opera.
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: AndrewR]
#1343967
17/05/2012 10:58
17/05/2012 10:58
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,578 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,578
Berlin
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...and then forgot that it doesn't highlight my intellectual deficiencies. Don't worry. There are plenty of people here who will be glad to help.
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: ]
#1343969
17/05/2012 11:02
17/05/2012 11:02
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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Whats the deal if someone turns up at my door demanding money from me. Can I just prove my ID and they will bugger off? Yup, that should be it. The week my wife and I moved into our first flat together a bloke turned up to cut off the gas, following months of unpaid bills. Showed him some ID and never heard anything more about it.
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: barnacle]
#1343971
17/05/2012 11:07
17/05/2012 11:07
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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...and then forgot that it doesn't highlight my intellectual deficiencies. Don't worry. There are plenty of people here who will be glad to help. It's good to be amongst fiends
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1344476
19/05/2012 09:26
19/05/2012 09:26
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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I'm a bit lost now.
They say they are charging you what? An extra £94? For going to court?
You would expect to hear from the court, then, surely? If you haven't heard from the court you haven't been summoned to court.
Next they'll be charging you for their weekly shop at Asda.
CAB without delay. You should have spoken to them already. You can also phone up the court and ask them whether the alleged visit took place, and what you need to do about it. The court staff are usually very helpful.
Don't try to work this out on your own.
BTW - waking you up in the early hours to hand you a letter constitutes unreasonable behaviour. Make sure you mention it to the CAB.
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1344493
19/05/2012 10:46
19/05/2012 10:46
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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You could send it off for carbon-dating.
What court costs? You haven't heard from the court, have you? You don't owe court costs if there hasn't been a ruling.
You have left out the cost of applying their wheel clamp, and subsequently releasing it.
Sorry - could you just run through this one more time? Are they claiming that the original demand in total was for £94 ? What was the sequence of events, and the charges demanded, according to them? I am having difficulty putting their story together in sequence.
Last edited by Enforcer; 19/05/2012 10:50.
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Re: Legal advise
[Re: nick_d]
#1344498
19/05/2012 11:07
19/05/2012 11:07
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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OK, I understand that, but I don't understand their complete story in sequence. I think we need that in the first place if we are going to be able to discuss this at all helpfully.
So if they were to go to court and have to recount everything that they'd done to collect the debt, how would their story run?
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