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Alfa 156 2004 Non-start diagnostics #1406668
27/01/2013 10:53
27/01/2013 10:53
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280
West Berks
skinflint Offline OP
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline OP
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280
West Berks
A proper Italian car this - waits until I have 1,000,000 things to do and then decides not to start.

I have a couple of questions somebody may be able to answer.

Most popular fix is the crank sensor - and I have one- but has anyone done one with the engine in situ? It is supposed to be down near the starter motor. Did you go in under or over?

Will my Barnacle objects work with some other (preferably free) software so I can get a reading? It has the small ECU up on the throttle body.

Re: Alfa 156 2004 Non-start diagnostics [Re: skinflint] #1406673
27/01/2013 11:43
27/01/2013 11:43
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,417
Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG Offline
Club Treasurer Member 311
DaveG  Offline
Club Treasurer Member 311
Je suis un Coupé

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,417
Lightwater, Surrey
You can borrow my ACR code reader if you like, and like the Coupe I would imagine you access it from below, have you checked for any online manuals, Alfa forums (fora?) Does the injector light come on? And has the engine ever stalled when running? Cam belt changed recently perhaps?


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Alfa 156 2004 Non-start diagnostics [Re: skinflint] #1406684
27/01/2013 13:01
27/01/2013 13:01
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280
West Berks
skinflint Offline OP
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline OP
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280
West Berks
Thanks for the kind offer Dave
Unlike the Fiat it seems to have different indicators. There's a yellow engine shaped one, a trianglish one, and they all go out.
I've been out jiggling wires etc. and it is now starting on the button poised to find a really critical moment to fail.

The engine has never stalled when running, but it did this non start thing a few weeks ago. I thought I'd flooded it and cranked through to a start with the throttle floored.

One thing that might be a clue is that the rad fan comes on when I turn the ignition on.

Re: Alfa 156 2004 Non-start diagnostics [Re: skinflint] #1406688
27/01/2013 13:53
27/01/2013 13:53
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,417
Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG Offline
Club Treasurer Member 311
DaveG  Offline
Club Treasurer Member 311
Je suis un Coupé

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,417
Lightwater, Surrey
Is it a 2 litre twin spark engine? Not too familiar myself, do you know what ECU it has? But I assume it has a cam/phase sensor and either that or crank/rpm sensor could be failing intermittently. although' lights are ok now and it starts, when it doesn't start does any warning light come on? (engine one probably, triangle prob to do with ABS?)

Edit: just checked a 156 manual online, triangle with circle/arrow around is VDC vehicle dynamic control whatever that is

Last edited by DaveG; 27/01/2013 14:09. Reason: VDC

1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Alfa 156 2004 Non-start diagnostics [Re: skinflint] #1406689
27/01/2013 13:57
27/01/2013 13:57
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280
West Berks
skinflint Offline OP
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline OP
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280
West Berks
It is a 1.8 TS. I think the ECU is a Bosch Motronic 2.10.something?
The lights go out when it fails as well as when it starts.

Re: Alfa 156 2004 Non-start diagnostics [Re: skinflint] #1406694
27/01/2013 14:22
27/01/2013 14:22
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,417
Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG Offline
Club Treasurer Member 311
DaveG  Offline
Club Treasurer Member 311
Je suis un Coupé

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,417
Lightwater, Surrey
I think it's Bosch ME7.3.1 but anyway if engine light goes out it could be a fuel fault: leaky injector, flooded engine again?


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Alfa 156 2004 Non-start diagnostics [Re: skinflint] #1406787
27/01/2013 23:10
27/01/2013 23:10
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280
West Berks
skinflint Offline OP
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline OP
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280
West Berks
You're probably right about the ECU rev. It is a CF3 engine anyway.

I can hear the fuel pump come on and go off for 2 secs.
It isn't really a perfect crank sensor problem because they're supposed to fail when warm.

I tried disconnecting the temp sender when it had failed and that didn't fix anything.

Re: Alfa 156 2004 Non-start diagnostics [Re: skinflint] #1406800
27/01/2013 23:36
27/01/2013 23:36
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,417
Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG Offline
Club Treasurer Member 311
DaveG  Offline
Club Treasurer Member 311
Je suis un Coupé

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,417
Lightwater, Surrey
Does it fail on cold starts, warm starts, hot starts, or not enough of a pattern to tell yet? On the Coupe, the fans coming one is usually a failed temp sensor itself, or the low coolant temps caused by a failed thermostat (where the ECU thinks the coolant temp is higher and hence puts the fans on). On the 156 does it seem like the thermostat is OK? When the fans come on, does the engine warning light come on? If it then starts, does the fan switch off straight away?


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Alfa 156 2004 Non-start diagnostics [Re: skinflint] #1406821
28/01/2013 00:50
28/01/2013 00:50
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280
West Berks
skinflint Offline OP
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline OP
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280
West Berks
It has been cold starts up to now.
Thermostat is OK but has been showing a little bit cool on the gauge on the motorways lately. Not off the scale, just 10 O'clock rather than 11 O'clock.

I probably need to digest the manual. There doesn't seem to be a warning light that doesn't go out, whether the engine's working or not.

I think the fan kept going when it started this morning.

Re: Alfa 156 2004 Non-start diagnostics [Re: skinflint] #1411256
16/02/2013 12:59
16/02/2013 12:59
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280
West Berks
skinflint Offline OP
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline OP
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280
West Berks
Update.
It would't start the other day and the man from the AA diagnosed the crank sensor failure before attaching one of those excellent bar things and towing me home.
I've just changed it and the old one was completely open circuit.
Later 156s and 147s have an L shaped sensor with a connector directly on the back.
It lives under the starter motor so is a job you do by feel only.

Thanks for your help Dave.


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