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Interesting...whilst Fiat's ownership of Alfa has benefits (shared platforms, common parts) it also has drawbacks in that it tends to prevent Fiat from developing sportier cars, hence no successor to the Coupe. Although the Coupe was developed alongside the GTV, that was during a more profitable era in Fiat's history, and so with the economic climate as it is now, selling Alfa might provide more of an opportunity for a new Coupe...but also more of a risk that it would just be a badge-engineered Chrysler, perish the thought!

I guess that is a ray of hope but with the Chrysler albatross around Fiat's neck I can't imagine anything too amazing coming to the surface soon?

Alfas will be totally gone as an option for me if they inherit Audi's unreliability, high resale value, servicing costs, lack of charisma etc..

Our only hope then is that being Italian, they will make some unusual, irrational, illogical and downright surprising decisions in the future

But for Audi, how do you explain high resale value if all the other comments are true, is it the BMW/Apple-like herd mentality?

Audis unreliable? Can't say I've heard that one.

I've owned 3 troublesome VWs, none of which saw more than 140k, I sit across the bar from a man who spends a good portion of Sunday evening delivering the latest instalment on the Audi Allroad that's bankrupting him, and had a boss with a 2 year old porous headed 1.9 TDi A4, so in my experience they're not what they're cracked up to be.

It has been on the cards for ages, Marchionne has always said Alf is not for sale, Ferdinand Piech has made no secret of his desire to add Alfa to the VW stable. Presumably the offer has been too low up to now and maybe things have changed. Real shame will be that future Alfas would all be on the VW MQB platform - reading Harry Metcalfe's column in evo this month makes that a less than inspiring idea.

It is a bit like Rover/BMW where BMW decided that they wanted their car to be young, dynamic, etc. and that left Rover with the pipe & slippers and the corresponding chav attack over-compensation. They won't want both brands going head to head like they do now.

It's strange isn't it. Up until a few decades ago everyone thought Ford or GM was going to own the motoring world, sucking up brands and homogenising them. In 30 years or so VW has gone from niche, German car maker to owning such an eclectic selection of brands.

I'm no fan of the fact that VW own Porsche these days. Part of their allure was the family owned idealism that drove the company until the mid-nineties. That said, those ideals were lost long before VW bought them and up until now VW have had a hands-off attitude in the manufacturing and design processes at Stuttgart. Whether that'll be true for Alfa is probably a whole different matter.

Rightly or wrongly (especially since taking the 911 water-cooled) Porsche have a reputation for German reliability. Alfa have a reputation for creating cars that have mysterious bits of plastic rolling around in the footwell.

My Audi has now done 200k and whilst not trouble free, the build quality and Quattro 4 wheel drive meant it has always been worth getting sorted the odd electrical gremlins, oil feed issues, etc. to keep it alive. It is still going strong and I will miss it when it has gone.
I think Audi have done a very good job in moving Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti into the 21st century, whilst allowing them to have their own DNA. I think they would do the same for Alfa. Now they no longer make the 159, Alfa don't have a "family" car that appeals to someone like me at present...
I would hate Alfa to go the way of Saab, as the world of cars would be much less interesting......

That could be true for Alfa too. Aren't the newer engines all GM based?


And for rust, and Italian electronics etc. etc.

That's a fair point, but it would be better to find a buyer whose product range didn't compete so directly. I can't see how they'll market Alfa without doing a BMW Rover job on them.

VW will see Alfa as another marque to slot in alongside SEAT and Skoda, though. Basically VWs underneath with individual bodies. The Mito will be replaced with a Polo, the Giulietta will be replaced with a Golf and the new 159 size car will just be a Passat in a frock.

You may think that's a bad thing, but all the range is currently remanufactured FIATs, and not very exciting ones at that.

The idea of a Mito built to VW engineering quality (ie a Polo underneath) and a Guilietta potentially being as good as a VW Golf GTi, seems a better place to invest your hard earned income?
Italian cars are bought for their design flair and long may that continue. Trouble is consumers want and expect more these days, which is were VW come in?
Seat's are not to my taste, but the exteriors are miles away from the more conservative VW's. Look what they have done for Skoda!!!!

As you say, Alfa maybe one brand too many in the VW stable.
However with the right approach and giving them enough of a free hand, Alfa could enable VW to attack BMW from two fronts:
Audi on design quality and prestige, Alfa Romeo on flair and sportiness?

They'll screw it up like they did Lamborghini. Tbh the newer generations shared GM engines anyway so it's hardly 'news' of their demise.

Basically bad news on the design/passion front but it could mean they start making some old parts again if enough people pester/petition.

One thing that really is good about German car makers is that they keep making the parts even for old cars. My 13 year old Fiat and 9 year old Alfa i have to trawl the internet for a door check strap =(

Where would Alfa fit into the VW Group though?
Unless they run alongside VW as sporty and VWs give up their sporty ones.
I just don't see any space in the lineup of brands.

True that.
And, it'll be the last nail in the Fiat-coffin - which I think/hope Marchionne knows, he can't be that stupid.
It's the only premium-brand "for the people" in the Fiat palette.

The strange thing would be - Why would Audi send out these rumours..? Do they think Fiat would fall under group pressure..?

I really cant see VW abandoning the Golf GTi. Likewise how would the planned joint venture with Mazda for the new spider sit against the VAG line up? Finally what happens to the 4C? Its made in the Maserati plant.

Every car they have or are planning directly competed with VAG models - I don't see what they can do with Alfa that won't compromise something.

Exactly.
With the constant push for moving everything upmarket Alfa must be Fiat Group's best hope for filling the gap above Puntos and below Maseratis.
They've let Lancia go (effectively) and I still think that Alfa could compete with BMW/Audi/Merc if they were given some decent support and the right product.

Ford and GM must be kicking themselves for letting SAAB, Volvo and Jaguar go as the mainstream brands are getting pushed hard from below by the likes of Hyundai/Kia and Fiat are in the same boat (along with Peugeot, Citroen, Renault).

Can't stand Audis, BMWs, Mercs, VWs or Porches (928 excepted), just don't like the styling and personality, if that makes sense. Great engineering maybe but....

Moved to Italian Cars after the UK industry pressed the self destruct button. Ironically the Indians and Chinese are makeing a degree of sucess with what BAE and Ford discarded in old UK badges.

I think many of you are looking through very rose tinted spectacles. All Alfa currently are (4C excepted) is a styling exercise on the FIAT range. They aren't a breeding ground for sporty, Italian machines with a racing lineage.

The 4C was an one-off prototype that was well received and so got put into limited production, but that in no way means we're about to see a renaissance of rear-drive, sporty Alfas under FIAT ownership. I can see the 4C doing OK for Alfa, but it's not going to make the company a fortune. Once it's production run has finished any successor would share a lot of Boxster tech which can only be a good thing from a reliability point of view. Bear in mind that the Boxster is reported to be possibly the finest mid-engined, rear-drive chassis in the world. The only stigma it has is that's it's not a 911. A problem that an Alfa wouldn't have.

I suppose the fact that the Boxster doesn't set on fire randomly, have ill-fitting bits of trim, suspension components made of gorgonzola and it actually starts every morning means it doesn't have "soul."

In my eyes this could really work for Alfa. They can take a proven well built car across the whole VAG range, tweak the chassis for themselves, style an Italian body to go on top and not have the residuals of secondhand toilet paper because people can buy a 3 year old German car without risk of it's gearbox falling out.

VAG have managed to squeeze VW, Audi, SEAT and Skoda into their normal car ranges. SEAT are a bit out in the wilderness because they don't have an identity other than as slighter cheaper Volkswagens. Alfa have the italian identity and the styling. These are things that VAG will encourage to flourish. To cry that they'll lose some "Italian magic" is missing the point. The very reason Alfa aren't a much more successful brand is most ordinary people want reliability, not engine management lights dressed up as "soul."

You are right Brewster, that average Audi TT is better engineered, more solidly made and more reliable than even the best FIAT/Alfa. I would still rather go out with a quirky attractive bird than the class swot who does everything by numbers though

Spot on 100%....

Does Sam know?

She working on her maths

Maybe not a breeding ground at the moment but Alfa have one of the best racing heritages of any manufacturer currently producing cars. Far more pedigree than Ferrari, Porsche and the like.

Unfortunately with all the modern safety/economy restrictions and legislations, gone are the days of car manufacturers making truly unique and individual cars*. They've all turned into the same boring euro-boxes with different badges.

*available to the public for sensible money

I don't deny that Alfa do have racing heritage, but not for many decades and the current crop of cars have absolutely nothing to do with any of that other than sharing a badge.

As for the Porsche comparison the 911 is the most successful racing car ever made, still being made in the same layout, unique to the rest of the world these days, and still racing the world over in their own series and in GT racing. If you don't think they have soul that's your prerogative, but to say Alfa has a greater racing lineage than Porsche is blind loyalty. That is unless there's a worldwide 159 JTDm race series I don't know about?

Don't get me wrong, when visiting Goodwood FoS I really coo over the old Alfas, some of them older than Porsche itself. They were beautiful, purposeful machines. They are also about as relevant to the design and build of the modern cars as the earliest Porsche tractors are to the Boxster.

We can move onto the soundtrack, or the styling, or the handling, or the interior or the pedigree or the reliability, or the miles per pound any time