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Too much understeer !
#1423963
24/04/2013 21:50
24/04/2013 21:50
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 548 Oxford
Sean_C
OP
Enjoying the ride
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OP
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 548
Oxford
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On Monday I went to Snetterton for a track day. As I have suspected for a long time my car suffers from lots of understeer. So what is wrong ? My set up is :
Bilstein shocks FCSS lowering springs Uprated front ARB ( Lancia Dedra ?) 22mm uprated rear ARB Front upper strut brace Toyo tyres
The lack of front end grip is so frustrating.
Opinions anybody ?
Sean
Last edited by Sean_C; 24/04/2013 21:50.
Enjoying Coop ownership, second time round . Also enjoying RWD action in a thundering V8 E90 M3.
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Re: Too much understeer !
[Re: Sean_C]
#1423972
24/04/2013 22:26
24/04/2013 22:26
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dazs78
Unregistered
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dazs78
Unregistered
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I've heard on here mentioned that a front and rear uprated ARB counteract each other. I think its best just to have the uprated rear ARB without the front but i'll let someone with more experience comment as i may be wrong.
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Re: Too much understeer !
[Re: Sean_C]
#1423975
24/04/2013 22:40
24/04/2013 22:40
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,617 SE Essex
charlie_croker
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,617
SE Essex
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I suspect its your uprated Front ARB, basic rule is on a RWD have an uprated Front ARB on FWD have an uprated Rear ARB.
My setup is almost the same as yours (I have Eibach springs and Poly Rear subframe bushes) and I have almost zero understeer.
Last edited by charlie_croker; 24/04/2013 22:40.
Happy
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Re: Too much understeer !
[Re: Sean_C]
#1423991
25/04/2013 00:11
25/04/2013 00:11
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,034 Sweden
Per
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,034
Sweden
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Also check your toe, too much toe-in is fatal. And add a bit of camber, that's done the most of it for me. I use H&R bolts set to -1.5deg. Another thing that helped me was relocating the battery to the rear (yes you can certainly feel the difference). All these mods adds up to a neutral, almost oversteering, Coupe!
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Re: Too much understeer !
[Re: Hovedan]
#1424012
25/04/2013 09:09
25/04/2013 09:09
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,617 SE Essex
charlie_croker
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,617
SE Essex
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Camber is key. Charlie I hope you don't drive that hard on public roads Dan, I drive like an old lady, I certainly would not be pushing things on the public highway.
Happy
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Re: Too much understeer !
[Re: Sean_C]
#1424104
25/04/2013 20:19
25/04/2013 20:19
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
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Why don't just use 2 second hand(if new too expensive)full race slick tyres......you'll be amazed how much difference can make no matter how good your Toyo is...... Coupe too heavy front end....
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Too much understeer !
[Re: gj88]
#1424112
25/04/2013 20:59
25/04/2013 20:59
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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How is heel and toe going to reduce understeer? Regardless, you want to have completed your down changes before you enter the corner, not upon entry. Not driven on a track before? Accelerate flat out to the corner hard on the brakes - if you changed down before you'd wipe out your engine, since you want to turn in on the brakes you'll either change down during braking like Deannn said (heel toe) or change down in the corner (usually only done in error). If you don't heel and toe you'll create a braking reaction from the engine and the car will understeer more. I second the 2 used slicks comment, save your decent road tyres and beat the hell out of some slicks. plenty of negative camber will help.
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Re: Too much understeer !
[Re: Per]
#1431764
06/06/2013 15:37
06/06/2013 15:37
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,302 Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps
Club member 1482
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Club member 1482
My job on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,302
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
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Also check your toe, too much toe-in is fatal. And add a bit of camber, that's done the most of it for me. I use H&R bolts set to -1.5deg. Another thing that helped me was relocating the battery to the rear (yes you can certainly feel the difference). All these mods adds up to a neutral, almost oversteering, Coupe! Any pictures of the way you did the battery move? I know it is pretty logical in some ways but I have thought about this to help balance the weight slightly.
Andy
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Re: Too much understeer !
[Re: ]
#1431771
06/06/2013 16:15
06/06/2013 16:15
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,678 Warwickshire
gj88
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,678
Warwickshire
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How is heel and toe going to reduce understeer? Regardless, you want to have completed your down changes before you enter the corner, not upon entry. Not driven on a track before? Accelerate flat out to the corner hard on the brakes - if you changed down before you'd wipe out your engine, since you want to turn in on the brakes you'll either change down during braking like Deannn said (heel toe) or change down in the corner (usually only done in error). If you don't heel and toe you'll create a braking reaction from the engine and the car will understeer more. I'm aware of what heel and toe is and how you use it. I never drive without using it. As I said, complete your changes before entry to the corner i.e. under braking but you've seemed to back me up with your comments.
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Re: Too much understeer !
[Re: Sean_C]
#1432244
09/06/2013 10:43
09/06/2013 10:43
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jonone
Unregistered
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jonone
Unregistered
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Sean, like others I would say add some negative camber, sticky tyres (I recommend the federal Rsr as a cheap option) and work on your driving style.
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Re: Too much understeer !
[Re: Sean_C]
#1432393
10/06/2013 07:49
10/06/2013 07:49
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Nello
Unregistered
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Nello
Unregistered
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Slightly off topic but everyone should get on at least one track day. The best way to safely learn how your car reacts when you corner too rapidly. My cars pretty much standard bar lowered springs and was slightly suprised by the amount of understeer a near OE Coupe has designed into it (though that is probably safer for road use). I'm sure there would be fewer accidents if everyone learnt more about how their vehicles react under speed in this way....
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Re: Too much understeer !
[Re: Sean_C]
#1432423
10/06/2013 12:22
10/06/2013 12:22
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,034 Sweden
Per
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,034
Sweden
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Track days are indeed both good and fun. And obviously a terrific way of validating your recent mods! Thanks Per - interesting that you have used the wheel well, for balance the weight of the wheel could also be helpful!! No problems! Well, I want as little weigth as possible (with sustained comforts that is) so away with heavy spare wheel etc. Dead weight, also - 1. The battery sits much lower than otherwise, and 2. A flat untouched luggage space with sustained flat floor, i.e. How Fiat Would've Done It.
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