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Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: ] #1423807
23/04/2013 23:08
23/04/2013 23:08
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,904
Poland
deannn_20VT Offline
My life on the forum
deannn_20VT  Offline
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Poland
Originally Posted by F1ANG
Is there any tyre you've tried and tested in 225-45-16 thats available and you would recommend?
Yes, there is. Falken FK452.

Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: Nigel] #1423816
24/04/2013 00:34
24/04/2013 00:34
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,486
London Tan
technics Offline
I need some sleep
technics  Offline
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Posts: 3,486
London Tan
I tried them tyres and hated them, again in the mid range bracket and with good bhp I personally think for what might be 20 quid a corner just go premium brand. It's money well spent.


Now in the 400+ bhp club!
Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: DaveG] #1423834
24/04/2013 02:38
24/04/2013 02:38
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 23,347
North Wales
Theresa Offline
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Theresa  Offline
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North Wales
Originally Posted by DaveG
Nitrogen in tyres is just for rich people who are too lazy to check the pressures regularly, neither of which sounds like you Nigel?



Lol, I agree with the lazy bit, as that's me laugh Definately not rich though, but at £1 a tyre for Nitrogen, it's sometimes worth it, in my opinion smile

Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: Nigel] #1423855
24/04/2013 09:44
24/04/2013 09:44
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline OP
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Nigel  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
F1ANG - it crossed my mind that the reason that the Toyos are unsuitable for my car is because of the (relatively) extreme chassis mods, including a beefy rear ARB, PU rear subframe mounts, PU wishbone bushes, -1.5 degrees camber, etc etc

As I mentioned, I've used T1-R for years without issue, so it could be that I've simply gone a step too far for them

Toyo UK have replied to my email and they are making enquiries to Japan to see if there have been any changes to the construction or compounds - very good service so far.

Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: Nigel] #1424006
25/04/2013 07:45
25/04/2013 07:45

R
rikki16vt
Unregistered
rikki16vt
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Better to borrow a set of premium tyres with 20vt rims from a friend nearby and try them out, just to isolate the problem being tyre related rather than an unknown deterioration with the suspension components (shocks, springs, bushes or rod etc.)

Just a thought.

Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: Nigel] #1424011
25/04/2013 09:08
25/04/2013 09:08
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,618
SE Essex
charlie_croker Offline
I need some sleep
charlie_croker  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,618
SE Essex
Originally Posted by Nigel
F1ANG - it crossed my mind that the reason that the Toyos are unsuitable for my car is because of the (relatively) extreme chassis mods, including a beefy rear ARB, PU rear subframe mounts, PU wishbone bushes, -1.5 degrees camber, etc etc

As I mentioned, I've used T1-R for years without issue, so it could be that I've simply gone a step too far for them

Toyo UK have replied to my email and they are making enquiries to Japan to see if there have been any changes to the construction or compounds - very good service so far.


My suspension is very similar to yours (ARB, PU bushes but got 1.1 degrees camber) and I have no issues with the T!-Rs, though I have bought a spare set of LE Alloys which are getting shod with Toyo R1-Rs tomorrow. So I will hopefully be able to do back to back tests.

Personally, I have a sneaking suspicion that they have altered the compound in some way.


Happy
Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: Nigel] #1424704
29/04/2013 15:21
29/04/2013 15:21
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline OP
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Nigel  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
Toyo have confirmed no changes to either the compound or the construction of the T1-R

I'm now trying to work out how to find the cause - next stage is to borrow some wheels and tyres to see if there's any difference - I've just started another thread in this section asking to borrow a set for a short time (ie half an hour or so)

Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: Nigel] #1424765
29/04/2013 21:09
29/04/2013 21:09

D
devbod
Unregistered
devbod
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Did your last tyres wear evenly or was there a slight gradient in the wear across the surface? Wondering if your suspension alterations made the camber too extreme but the old tyres had worn unevenly reducing the effect. With new overpressure tyres they'd tend to ride on one edge making the car wander but the extra downward force on a turn would flatten it enough to get better contact.

Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: ] #1424770
29/04/2013 21:26
29/04/2013 21:26
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline OP
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Nigel  Offline OP
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Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
Originally Posted by devbod
Did your last tyres wear evenly or was there a slight gradient in the wear across the surface? Wondering if your suspension alterations made the camber too extreme but the old tyres had worn unevenly reducing the effect. With new overpressure tyres they'd tend to ride on one edge making the car wander but the extra downward force on a turn would flatten it enough to get better contact.


Good point - the previous tyres were more worn on the inside edges, but not badly - maybe 0.5 - 0.75mm difference in the wear

I've tried dropping the pressures a bit further, but now I'm getting bad tramlining over white lines, so its going to have to go back up again

Annoyingly, I can't get the camber anywhere near stock, even with camber bolts, so I'm going to have to find another way of adjusting - I think its time to go back to standard camber and toe and see how it feels, then adjust from there

Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: Nigel] #1424936
30/04/2013 21:45
30/04/2013 21:45
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 357
Leicester
Dan Offline
Club member 1124
Dan  Offline
Club member 1124
Making a profit

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Posts: 357
Leicester
Might be obvious, but have you checked the tracking since changing the tyres. Only asking because I've had tyre fitters bend a tie rod quite dramatically before. Don't ask me how.

Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: Dan] #1424967
30/04/2013 23:09
30/04/2013 23:09
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline OP
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Nigel  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Staffordshire
Originally Posted by Dan
Might be obvious, but have you checked the tracking since changing the tyres.


I had it set for the fifth time on Sunday - although I'd had it set to 2mm toe-in about four weeks ago, it was close to parallel when I went to KwikFit on Sunday

Thankfully, I know the lads at the local branch quite well, so they know how to treat the car and they allow me to hang around and watch while they work

Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: Nigel] #1425489
03/05/2013 22:45
03/05/2013 22:45

B
Biggenz
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Biggenz
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AD08's are possibly the best road tyres you can buy.

Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: Nigel] #1425501
03/05/2013 23:02
03/05/2013 23:02

C
crazylegs
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crazylegs
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Ad08s I can say are the best tyre I have had.

In the wet they are gripy and in the dry they are amazing.

Road and track days for the price per coner you can't moan.

The life is great to lasted longer than my toyo t1r and the coupe feels planted.

I have these so no need for swap wheels at track days just turn up and have fun - drive home no hassle.

Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: Nigel] #1425588
04/05/2013 16:16
04/05/2013 16:16
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,618
SE Essex
charlie_croker Offline
I need some sleep
charlie_croker  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,618
SE Essex
Got T1Rs on one set of rims and R-1Rs on the other, have only done about 80 miles on the R-1Rs so may stilled some of the release gel to wear off but so far, I like them, I like them a lot.
The T1Rs feel planted but the sidewall seems a bit too soft, however the R-1Rs feel much stiffer and feels more solid through the twisty bits.
I am going to wear them in and then do some back to back testing


Happy
Re: Fallen out of love with Toyo... [Re: Nigel] #1425768
05/05/2013 18:57
05/05/2013 18:57
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline OP
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Nigel  Offline OP
Forum veteran

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
UPDATE:

Firstly, a public apology to Toyo (I'll be emailing my contact as well)

After an awful lot of playing around with damping settings, camber, tracking and tyre pressures, I now have the car back to how it used to be.

I've always run -1.5 degrees camber and was always a near-perfect balance of sharp turn-in and straight-line stability. When I had the 24mm ARB and the polybushed rear subframe fitted, it was still spot-on. However, its now clear that the reason it was still good was because I was running tyres that were very close to their wear limit - they had worn to the chassis geometry and were giving really good handling. As soon as the new tyres went on, it all went to pot.

My only explanation is that the added rigidity on the rear end (moving up from 23mm to 24mm ARB and replacing worn-out OE subframe mounts with stiff PU items) tipped the balance of the car, meaning that -1.5 degrees camber suddenly became too aggressive.

I have now backed it off to -1.2 degrees and set the toe to 2mm toe-in (the max of tolerance)

Took the car for a spirited blast and the horrible "hinge in the middle" feeling has gone and the straight-line stability is back. I've lost some of the front-end bite, which is a shame, but I have a feeling there was a direct trade-off between a pointy front end and a loose back end.

The biggest difference is that I can now go from full throttle to off-throttle in the middle of a bend and all that happens is that the line tightens a bit - previously the car got all squirelly and felt like it was going to step out

I reckon I may be able to back off from the toe-in - maybe back to 1mm toe-in, but I'll live with it for a week first

Having said all of the above, I may still try some other tyres for the next set, but at least I'll be able to use the T1-Rs until they're worn out.

However, it w

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