Is anyone here up to speed with PD rights? If so, I can post some plans here to give a better idea of what I am trying to achieve.

Thanks in advance!

I have a reasonable knowledge

Great Emjay, I'll post some more info when I am at a PC, thanks.

The house has never been extended, and the single storey annexe was built at the same time as the double storey section of the house - it's part of the original house.

My question is whether I can add a 1st floor on the single storey annexe through Permitted Development?

I'd be looking to keep the extension in-line with the double storey section of the house at the front, and possibly at the rear too.


Any advice appreciated.


Existing plans/elevations:

PD allows you to go up to 4m high with a single storey extension at the side. You can't do a second storey on top of an existing first storey and claim that is your PD (not least because it would make it too high)

The only way this can be done within PD is to the extent the annexe is at the rear, you can go back 3 metres from the original footprint with a second storey extension.

With the relaxation of PD you can go back from the original footprint 8 metres single storey, subject to being away from the boundary, which may give you the space you need and it may be possible to argue that you can go back 3 metres double storey and then 5 metres single - not aware of any guidance on that yet.

That was my understanding as well, but I hadn't considered 3 meters double storey followed by 5 meters single. I was thinking along the lines of 3 meteres double storey or 8 meteres single.

The reason I posted this is because by builder said I could build on top of the single storey annex, with a 4 meter limit in width (from side to side rather than front to back). But I cannot find any reference to this allowance on any PD documentation.

Builder is confused. There is no 4m width restriction. It is 50% of the original footprint, which you can exercise on either side.

This may help

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/extensions/

PD is pretty limiting (as Emjay's pointed out already). Why not just submit outline or full plans - it's really no big deal. Some LPA officers are pretty receptive to an informal discussion albeit they won't want to commit themselves formally. There's also certificates of lawful development but your best bet is to submit plans.

Thanks Swin, that's the info I have been using hence my confusion around what the builder has been seeing. I agree with you Emjay, I think he's confused.



I'll explain the whole story. I initially approached my LPA's drop-in service with an informal enquiry prior to submitting full plans. I simply asked if they could forsee any issues before I get plans drawn up to build on top of the single storey annexe. The officer on duty asked me to email my sketches and someone would respond.

Despite me making clear that the single storey is part of the original build, this is the response I got:

"The property currently features a large flat roof, single storey extension to the side that projects forward of the main dwellinghouse/building line; this appears to be a historical extension and is not considered to be in keeping with the design, scale and proportion of the main dwelling or the surrounding area.

As such, it is considered that the footprint of this extension would not provide a satisfactory scale for a proposed first floor extension to the side and rear of the dwelling and that this existing extension would need to be removed as part of any proposed scheme.

In view of the indicative proposed plans, it is considered that the proposal would not be supported and such an application would be likely to be refused. This view is supported by my Team Leader".

Rather than replying by email, which can come across as cold, I telephoned the officer and very politely explained that the single storey annexe is part of the original build, and not an extension, and whether this point would make any difference to his informal opinion. His reply was an abrupt "well, I've given my response, and now it's up to you to submit a design that we find acceptable".

I didn't want to rub him up the wrong way, so I left it at that and asked the guy doing my plans to liaise with the planning department to come up with something suitable. I asked him to make clear that the single storey annexe is part of the original build.

The guy doing the plans came back to me and said he had a positive conversation with the planning officer and can't see any issue with us submitting a planning application based on adding a 1st floor to the single storey annexe.

8 of my neighbours were consulted as part of the planning application, and no one raised any objections.

The application was then refused.

Before going to appeal, I just wanted to check out all my other options.

Thanks for the opinions guys.

Sorry to hear it's got to that stage Aleem - clearly you've come up against the LPA's prize tool. I'm out of my depth after the application stage so the only advice I could suggest is to maybe consider using a planning expert to help you with the appeal. Obviously depends on how much £ you want to throw at it. I have always deferred to experts whenever I come up against planning problems at work and almost always use CGSM. They're not cheap but pretty much leading experts in their field. I've found Planners usually start taking things a bit more seriously when they get involved. I've never lost an appeal with them yet inc. even when there's a judicial review. I'm sure there are other firms too but can't vouch for them. Chris Hicks is the contact I've used based in London but they have other offices nationally. Whatever you do good luck with it.
http://www.cgms.co.uk/page/Home_1/1.html

OK. Post-RN, I fell into LG as a CTP with a Dip TP.
This for a decade 80's-90's.

First, I would question the original SS annexe which does not appear in keeping (window frames and flat roof are a clue as is another living room on plan). The same bricks may feature.
Please view the original plans. The annexe may have been built shortly after the original build (hopefully with BR). Given the projection beyond the front face, I doubt if PP would have been given for this, However it may have been PD at the time with a bit of 'encroachment'. The alternative is that it had no approvals but is outside 7 years (for action purposes) and therefore is 'historical'. I do recall there being a limit on PD of +50% against the original dwelling house?

My take could be all wrong, but please check the time lines.

If something untoward has transpired, and given that your have probably paid council tax commensurate with its market value, you could apply for retrospective planning permission for the flat roof annexe.

The corner plot on the block plan tells a different storey and weirdly upholds you claim that the whole house is original with both streets and the canted corner mimicking existing frontals.

Guessing you've also got floribundums and leylandi en masse screening the corner?

This would serve to cement (pardon the pun) the exhisting build from a legal standpoint AND also could provide a reasonable launch platform for 2nd storey accomodation above existing. I would beg you to build a a pitched roof perpendicular to the existing ridge, please ..

I have presented the LA's case for both S36 Appeals and PI.
I won't be revisiting this field as my current expertise is MIL toys.

Please do your homework (sifting facts) before jumping-in.
IMO, and in their shoes I would refuse outright for another flat roof storey. I would consider a sympathetic pitched roof though ..

Tell me to swivel if you like but an honest take from an old pro.

Couldn't agree more with ^ Robshed. Don't waste your time with an appeal or money with a planning consultant until you've at least got the aesthetics right. A flat roof extn. isn't sympathetic and isn't going to cut it.