This happened to me a couple of months ago, total brake failure at a substantial speed on a D/C:



The last time I had hit my brakes was about 4-5 minutes earlier when a car suddenly dived out to pass a lorry in front of me; I hit them quite hard and they were solid. The next time I applied the brakes to go off at my junction there was nothing , just nothing, so cruised half a mile to the next junction with a rising exit and pulled off at the roundabout at the top.

Took a while for it to really sink in just how lucky I had been; in just about any other situation I can think of it would have been an impact at best or wipe out at worst. I can only conclude that it was not my time to go.

Having owned the car for so long, I know all of the sounds it can make. There had been a warning, an intermittent kind of flapping sound which I had concluded was coming from deep in the dashboard in front of the driver, having been on my hands and knees to eliminate the front bumper and engine tray. In hindsight it must have been the braided hose which had come lose and was blowing about in the wind, went on for about a week before eventual failure and loss of all fluid and pressure.

Needless to say I have now reverted to standard rubber hoses! To be clear there was nothing wrong with the hoses themselves, they just got lose and rubbed clean through.

So, I am lucky to tell you this salutary tale.

Please don't tell me that was your idea of securing a brake hose - using a zip-tie.

Lucky escape. Those hoses should have a rubber grommet around them mounted to the strut though to prevent them from rubbing.

I have the correct rubber grommets on the new hoses. However, this was not where it had come lose, seems the hose was very long and thus able to contact in other places.

I had the same with the HEL braided hoses, discovered by JBT when he was testing my car and the brakes failed totally

They're wrong for the car. It looks like you've used Na hoses. Why would you replace a solid pipe with a flexible section? If you've been sold those for the turbo, you've a pretty good case for kicking up a stink.

It was also pot luck the hose didn't fail where you've "attached" the hose to the strut.

Huge fitting error and incorrect parts were potentially lethal.

I think you could be right there, checking the paperwork, this latest set of hoses purchased 2012 are described differently and were cheaper than previous set supplied in 2009. Would perhaps explain the extra length and capacity to move about and chaff.

I am right. Even If they're supplied as correct. They're designed wrong. They may have survived had you attached them properly to the strut.You're bloody lucky you didn't kill anyone.

I'd be more concerned about the idiot that fitted those hoses not them being the wrong hose.
If you fitted them yourself then I'd take yourself a outside for a serious talking to.

You're lucky no one got killed!!

Sends shivers even to this day.
There's no way I could've stopped so had to swerve onto the opposite side of the road.

Proccys had grommets,usually the reason for failure is there too small so on full lock over uneven ground it stresses the union.
This is also visable on an mot test under full lock.

Those are the correct hoses - they replace the solid pipe section from the caliper to the shock body

However, they were designed with two items that are crucially missing in your pictures

1) a sliding grommet in the bracket on the strut - designed to allow the hose to move as the suspension compresses and extends

2) fixed rubber grommets to be positioned where the hose might touch anything - usually near the union on the wheel arch

I'm sorry, but the reason these have failed is because of an incorrect fitting. I've had my Hel hoses fitted for several years without issue

I have to disagree, Nigel. While there's no doubt they've been fitted poorly. The design of the hose is appalling.

1. Why would replacing the solid brake line with a flexible one make any sense?

2. A sliding line through a rubber grommet is asking for trouble. Nothing should rub. Period.

I'd suggest you're fortunate rather than proof of success of this product.

Sorry Nigel I would have to disagree on this.
Its a problem hence the multiple failure posts down the years.

Regardless of blame Proccys were fitted elsewhere and fitted well.
It failed due to the stress at the union.
Even a sliding grommet wouldn't allow the slack to be taken on one side quick enough to stop the fatigue.
Again you can see this when the car is on the ramp,the pipe gets trapped on one side and doesn't return unless the union pulls abnormally on the pipe.
I refuse to fit these as the stock ones don't fail if visually checked every year.
Mine have been on for 5 years now and aren't perished or showing signs.

So I'm with szkom on this one.

I have these hoses too but don't remember them being supplied with the two rubber grommets, but they are fitted with 'grommets' of some sort as Nigel mentions. Where the hose goes through the bracket on the strut I have a short section of rubber pipe very loosely wrapped around the hose and wedged into the bracket if that makes sense. Never had a problem and no signs of any wear to the hoses, it's hardly likely that the rubber grommets are going to wear out the braided hoses. As for the 'nothing should rub' comment, even the OE hoses are set up with a thick O ring thing around the hose near the inner wing...

They were definitely fitted incorrectly, if there was a rubber grommet fixing the flexible hose to the strut and 2 other protection grommets strategically placed this would not have happened.

You can clearly see its worn through the outer plastic coating on the strut-hub bolt.

JBT would you fit a customers brake lines using a zip-tie method, no, you wouldn't.

DaveG, that's very different. What you refer to on the inner wing is protection 'in the event of'. And those are there to prevent direct rubbing of the hose.

What Nigel describes is the ability of the hose to slide through the strut on the grommet. While I agree that practically the grommet isn't likely to wear the hose it's certainly not beyond consideration. Even a small amount of grease or oil there would form a very nice cutting paste. However, thinking practically it's the grommet that will fail and let the hose touch the strut.

So I stand by my nothing should rub comment and that of the hoses being designed wrong.

No I wouldn't,I was making a general statement on these failing in response to my name being mentioned.
It wasn't about this particular failure.

I am shocked at the photos above of these Hell flexible hoses the way they have been fitted.

Took my front wheels off today to change my front wings and also check my break lines after reading this post last night,

I have these on the front and rear of my car which i put on with my ongoing project car,i've done what i can to stop any rubbing (see photo) but now i am getting worried about any stress on the bottom union pulling the flexy hose through the grommet as JBT said.

these have been on two years and done about 7,000 miles


JG

I'm confused. It appears from posts on here that the problem is a metal brake line has been replaced by a flexible hose. If the original is metal, how is the pipe being pulled through the grommet? That implies the brake line moves somehow, in which case a metal pipe would fracture?

Frankly if the pipe does flex, I'd assume a flexible hose would be a better option.

Or have I mis-read the thread?

It's a fixed distance from the caliper to the strut; a flexible section there is used to allow the caliper to be removed more easily, without draining the fluid.

The movement occurs between the strut and the inner wing, and as the steering or suspension moves the flex pipe can move just to equalise its own tension/compression, moving through the strut fixing and thereby rubbing.

Although the OEM hose is flexible throughout, it's a much firmer fix at the strut and doesn't slide - or at least, not significantly.

Jobuguk, that fitting looks spot on to me. Correct fitting like that should avoid any problems.

Jobuguk's look like they'll rub on the inner arch, also note how the hose slides through the grommet on the strut. Again I'd say it's good fortune that the hose hasn't shifted and rubbed through. Granted they've had more thought than the OP's installation, but still.

Thanks Neil

I am not 'having a go' its just the failures you have encountered in your experience differ to this one in the sense that they were installed differently.

Incorrect installation, this time, is the culprit.

On another note, why have a 'sliding grommet' at all?
The distance between the caliper and strut is a constant where as between the inner wing and strut is variable.
Surely it would be best to fix the length from strut to caliper, then use 3 hose spacers between the strut and inner wing?

That looks really well done.

As a long term owner, I am frankly feeling very sheepish and foolish having taken a convenient local fitting option. Lying here battling flu I continue to count my chickens and will certainly be entrusting ALL of my future brake related work to the specialists!