Can't make sense of dropping Root.

Another typical day for this tour - start to build a reasonable position, then throw it away. I hope it doesn't spoil the debutants.

I blame Cook & Flower for this. I was up watching when we had them on the rack and Cook took men out of the slips to save runs!! FFS it's wickets we need. At least 2 more wickets would have gone down and the score would likely have been in the low 200s.

It is this lack of attack that will see us slip down the test standings and is so frustrating to watch. Look back at games we dominated and see the 5 slips and a gully for a good 20 overs.

Another day where England just ran out of steam. I just don't get the selection of Borthwick and Rankin. Borthwick's wicket (a wild slog by Johnson) was the first by an English leg-spinner in 15 years and the Aussies play leggies as well as anyone, especially when they chuck pies. Tredwell would at least have offered some sort of control - after all he is our ODI spinner. Rankin hadn't bowled in a match for over a month, and at least Finn has a track record of getting wickets.

Stokes, Broad and Anderson are going to get bowled into the ground in the second innings (provided the Aussies need one)....

One question. Nightwatchman, why?

A dodgy one. I am very divided on this. As an ancient but still playing opening batsman I did not appreciate having to go out to bat if we bowled the opposition out half an hour before the scheduled tea break. It just meant that you had to play yourself in one extra time. Also the bowlers could have a hell for leather burst for a short period of time before putting their feet up and getting their breath back for another go on the resumption.

In a Test Match I am in favour of a nightwatchman at the end of a day's play for the reason given above provided there are no more than a few overs to go. The fact is that very few balls from the quicks will actually hit the stumps - according to Hawkeye only two balls from Mitchell Johnson in Brisbane would have disturbed the timber!! Last night poor old Jimmy would have expected to prod forward at anything pitched up and get hit by (or sway away balletically) from anything else. Tomorrow morning the bowlers will have in their minds that they may have to bowl all day in the best batting conditions of the match, so MAYBE will be at 95% rather than the full Monty.

Sir Geoffrey would say that batters bat (or not) and bowlers bowl, and whatever you may think of him he is very often right. On this Sydney pitch if we get within 100 of the Aussie total I will be surprised and delighted. An early night and an alarm call at 23.15 will be in operation in Chatham tonight!

Agree with Bocker's comments regarding Cook. His captaincy has been very poor in this series. He lacks aggression and is too quick to adopt defensive fields which has let us off the hook time and time again.

England really need Cook and the other senior players to step up tomorrow otherwise my prediction when this thread first started of a 5-0 whitewash will almost certainly come true

Oh dear..... if there was a sofa in my bedroom I'd be hiding behind it. 14-3, and should have been worse. Thank heavens Jimmy got out whilst he was still breathing

There's something not right about this.

Can't see anything less than a top-down shake-up happening after the end of the match.....if nothing more headline-grabbing.

Shameful and embarrassing.

One amazing statistic..... in 5 Test Matches England have managed 969 runs total in the 1st innings. In Australia's 1st innings their LAST 5 BATTERS (nos 7 - 11) have scored 1071 runs total in 5 matches.

Also Englands top five batters have totalled 20 runs or less in FIVE of 9 completed innings.

If England fail to bat out the remaining 3 days in this test it will be the first time in Ashes history that they have lost all 100 wickets in a five match series.

Oh well, I am a masochist so will still be peeking out from under the duvet tonight.....

Another downside is how tired one feels at this time of day

I've never been so glad I can't afford Sky any more.

So. Shall I lock this now...?!

Pitiful is the only word that sounds apt.

Michael Vaughan has a point when he criticised the England set up, when we won an ashes series all the management and back room staff lapped up the applause and were on the pitch with the team. Not a soul to be seen today. I have lived through some highs and lows as an England cricket fan. This, from a top team, was unacceptable. No fight at all.

Who should stay? Broad, Stores and Anderson are the only three for me who can hold their heads up high.

Received a message from my brother in law who was at the SCG today saying it was so easy it was almost embarrassing. Sums it up really.

A dark day for English cricket but I must admit it felt good waking up in England this morning as an Aussie

The last 7 wickets went down in 10 and a bit overs for 79 RUNS . Utterly embarrassing. The only bright spark was the emergence of Ben Stokes, who topped the batting averages and took more wickets than anyone bar Broad. He will be the glue that will hold the team together for a few years to come - he can bat, bowls sharpish and gets wickets and seems to have the character for a fight.

Where to go now? The question marks are;

An opening partner for Cook. Carberry tried hard, Root isn't there yet and Compton seems to be out of the equation. Sam Robson? Shed loads of runs for Middlesex and a typical Aussie mentality.

KP - still has a few years left and has the X-factor if the brain is engaged. I agree with Vaughan who thinks he should be more involved in the decision making, and he is still the only player we have who can actually change a game.

Wicket keeper. Prior, Bairstow or James Foster? I'd give Prior another go but it is a close call.

Spinner. Monty has gone, bless him. Borthwick is never going to be the sole spinner in the team, but if his batting progresses his leggies will be a useful alternative option. Root is in the same situation although I suspect he could also tie up an end if required as dear old Ashley Giles used to do. Rayner, Moin Ali, Rashid? I don't know!

Seam attack. Broad is a shoe-in, as is Stokes. Anderson will also play this summer but how many miles does he have left. Bresnan is just a trundler, and the extra seamer needs to have the chutzpah to stick it up the batsmen if required. Finn is the obvious choice - there are a couple of young quicks coming through such as Somerset's Overton who is only 19 but cleaned up Watson and Haddin last summer in a tour match, and Mills at Essex who has played very little cricket but is damned quick and left-handed - our Mitchell Johnson? Rankin and Tremlett won't play for England again.

Depending on form and injuries who will play at Lords in June against Sri Lanka?

Cook
Robson
Bell
Pieterson
Root
Stokes
Borthwick
Foster
Broad
Anderson
Finn

Simples...!

Its really tough to stay away from words like 'abject' and 'appalling'. From memory we only turned up on 2 days - the first at Brisbane and the second at Melbourne. We then threw both away by crap batting.

I feel really sorry for any England fan who spent the money to go to Aus. I'm afraid you were cheated.

The other huge mystery is how the ECB can back the Flower / Cook pairing before they have even finished the series. How can that be? Surely there has to be some change?

For me, time to get a certain M Vaughn back into the England setup.

I'm not sure what needs to happen, but I think a number of the senior players need to question whether they have the desire to keep pushing themselves. Pietersen is only a game changer if he applies himself to changing the game. I think Bell still has a fair bit left to offer, as has Cook and Broad; Anderson has been a superb servant and I wouldn't begrudge him carrying on until he says enough, as I believe he will go before he allows his standards to fall. But he needs a rest.
Prior might decide he has given his best, as might Bresnan (who I have always rated). Carberry was both wonderfully lucky to have been picked to play in an Ashes tour and dreadfully unlucky that it was *this* tour. I doubt we'll see him again other than on a short term basis.
Panesar has obviously been discarded, but I wish we could have given him some dignity rather than just not selecting him even when there was no other option!
I can't see Tremlett bowling for England again, but then again, Johnson was washed up (in terms of Ashes cricket) and I think I can safely say he has turned that around. There should be encouragement for Finn in that too. I've never thought Rankin was a test bowler.
I believe that Root, Ballance and clearly Stokes will play a part in England's future; the quest for an opening partner for Cook continues, but eventually Root should make it.
The wicket-keeper conundrum continues...

This was a thumping, a drubbing, a caning, as humiliating a face-slapping as England have endured in my lifetime.

However, not all the England players are, or have become bad. Australia were regarded as facing a decade in the wilderness after this summer's flattering England win, but look at them now. I don't think individually they are a better side than England, man for man, except for Haddin and Johnson, and I think they'll be found out against the South Africans. However, they have turned round an apparently hopeless situation in 3 months.
England need to reflect, to be honest with themselves and to start to rebuild with a love for playing and enjoying the game of cricket at the core.

Hats off mate

I scoffed at your prediction back in November but you were spot on


I think it's all very well talking about individuals but this fragmentation of a side's confidence goes deeper. It's fairly clear how talented or experienced most of the England squad are but the Aussies have shown in their team mentality that it's greater than the sum of their parts.

It's this drive and positive thinking, leadership and man-management which has to step in here. An orchestra will respond to its conductor and students to their lecturer; the players will respond accordingly.

As far as the squad goes Onions is still a possibility although at 31 he won't have many seasons left. However if he can fill a gap while the next generation emerges well and good.

Pietersen - I don't understand the criticism. He top scored for us. Not much of an achievement, granted, but he played a number of innings of unusual (for him) concentration and patience. He can't change the game single handed, and its impossible for him to go on a 200no mission when we are being bowled out in 30-odd overs. We have not seen the best of Pietersen on this tour, but the circumstances did not allow. You also can't single him out as a failure when he has got out for single figures - its not like he was the only one to do so.

Personally I'm in the school of thought that says he should be Vice-Captain and have more of a voice. Clearly he can't be Captain - tried that, and it was a disaster - but he would not be afraid to challenge some of the more conservative aspects of our recent game.

Didn't think I'd be saying that after the SA debacle.

If you have a look at ESPN Matt Prior and Stuart Broad talked a man down from jumping off a bridge close to the Barmy Army party in Sydney (THIS IS NOT A JOKE, although it could be). The man concerned was from Cheltenham, so must have been someone who only had tickets for the last two days at the SCG.

We are reliably informed that it was not Andy Flower (who hails from Harare) nor Kevin Pieterson (jumping off a bridge would have been futile as he can walk on water).

Well I wasn't going to post on this thread again but just thought I'd say my day at the SCG was fantastic!

I originally thought we were due to go for the 2nd day of the test. But as is the way with my terribly disorganised BiL, we had tickets for the 1st day. The first day was one of the most entertaining days cricket I've seen in many years. A century, albeit from an Aussie, a 6 wicket haul for Stokes and to top it all, an Aussie buying me beer all afternoon! Slightly disappointing we let them off the hook by allowing Haddin to get a few runs again and Carvery playing a poor shot to lose his wicket before stumps.

The atmosphere was something to behold. I've been to all the test match venues in England apart from Durham and the difference is night and day. It probably had something to do with the fact they were about to whitewash us but the banter between both sets of supporters started at 10:30 and continued in the pub afterwards! We eventually 'left' The Cricketers Arms at 1am due to my BiL dancing on the bar with 3 Aussie supporters wearing Kangaroo suits and wearing a Traffic Cone on his head

One more thing, one of the guys in our group was a Pom and his name was Ian Bell. I gave him the URL for here and told him to look up Bockers

Excellent! Glad it was an experience to savour, even if the results were not exactly what English fans might have chosen.

Don't look now but we are actually in a good position to throw away a game we should win.

Yes. It'll be interesting to see how. Wait, is that Brad Haddin...?

Bye Bye Haddin and Maxwell, well done Big Tim. Tight game but at this point we had Morgan and Butler going at full steam.

12 needed off the last over..............

4 off the first ball

Well not much you can say about that.

How correct was I Pitiful again. Go home England, you are embarrassing a nation.

Sorry, did I say Haddin? I meant Faulkner.

I'm not so sure it was that pitiful. I just think Australia are in the position to try anything at the moment and it'll probably come off, whilst England are in the kind of form where they couldn't buy a win.

Spectacular cricket for the neutral.