This puzzles me. I like a holiday as much as others, but if we can't afford it we don't go. Having an overseas holiday is not a right, nor should it be.

If you want to do this then where do you stop. Arguably peak train fares should be restricted first. Then how about car parking charges, and then why should designer clothes cost more. In fact isn't the whole demand and supply concept just a little unfair.

Here is the BBCs stance on it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26093691


Is Donna stupid? Why not just try a quote on any travel website and just change the dates and requote. Hey presto you can see the difference in prices.

Whilst you're absolutely right, I imagine it must be galling if you can see holidays that you can just about afford being reduced by a substantial amount just a week later (or earlier). This is more about the perception of unfairness.

On the other hand, I get quite cross at the idea of taking legal action against parents who take their kids out of school for a week (or even 2) so that they can afford to go on holiday. I really wish I believed that the authorities made this risible ruling to protect kids' education, but cynical old me thinks it's more to do with paranoia about league tables on attendance. I wouldn't hesitate to take my 12-year-old stepson to Spain for an unlimited period. Oh, I am.

Or everything you just bought for presents at Christmas being discounted in the post Christmas sales.

Oh I don't know, capping prices could be good if say your partner happened to be a teacher.

Like mine is

As I say, bockers, I'm not debating your point, just that the perception is that the evil holiday companies are profiteering from Hardworking Families(TM).

The problem with capping is it means there no restrictions for anyone else either. We don't tend to holiday in summer as we don't have kids so don't need to. If the prices are capped then we have no reason not to book in the holidays. This could backfire it that the holidays may be cheaper but there are fewer spaces for "families" as other can also benefit from the cap.

I see what you're saying, but at the same time we could pretty much guarantee an airline such as Ryanair would instantly fill that void. IMHO, Spain/ Turkey/ Greece won't reach capacity. But as you say capacity could be reached, but I think that limit is self imposed by the airline.

The image of profiteering I think is largely unhelped by what we've all witnessed; a half full aircraft that you've paid 50 quid for a seat on. These things tend to only be profitable when they're >70% full. So how does a full summer flight result in a higher ticket price?

Why do people always speak of companies profiteering? That's what a company is *for*... it's not there to make it cheap for you, it's there to get the highest price it can for its shareholders.

Agreed, Neil. And most people understand that. It is the perception of taking advantage of people who cannot choose freely (in this instance the dates they can go on holiday) that provokes some consumers to level the profiteering charge.

Because it's human nature to question what does not seem right.

Because they a) demand outstrips supply b) how do you think the run the empty planes/empty hotels, keep staff employed when they are under utilised. Yes they make a bigger profits in summer but that in part help cover the poor profit/loss during the quiet/off season.

And is it right to expect those who holiday in the off season to pay more to help subside those who want the benefit of peak season holidays? Thats pretty much against every law of supply and demand.

We absolutely have to stop these people without much money who are able to afford holidays because those profiteering bastards charge less if you go at less popular times.

Yea, if they'd known about this before, they wouldn't have had……oh wait...

Ouch ouch ouch!!!

Having fairly recently become a teacher (after working for Corporate America for 20 odd years), I have made the assumption that my career choice excludes me from ever taking a holiday again!!

On the subject of charging a premium to people who don't have a choice, unfortunately most industries seem to have an element of this. Petrol/Gas/Electricity is one immediate thought, and my own previous career, the Pharma industry, is another.

With regard to big Pharma, they are a purely profit making machine, and the day profit cannot be made out of developing and selling drugs, that will be the day they close down and get into another business.

'They' is also a good point to ponder. With the holiday industry in mind, premium prices keeping people employed during quieter times is true, but believe me, if times get hard, the only company employees who won't suffer will be the people at the top. They won't loose a seconds sleep over making redundant their entire workforce while they take the contractual golden handshakes to see them right for the rest of their lives.

OK, deep breath, step off soap box, and ponder on how to get a cheap holiday!!

corrected that for you!

Trying to think of a suitably pithy reply

But the only thing that keeps coming to mind is that I have just had half term, and spent 2 days planning lessons for next week, and another 2 days marking coursework!!

Luckily, the 5th day, I did manage to take the kids to see the Lego Movie

Hyperlink, you've missed my point. I firmly believe what you pay at peak times is largely fair and an accurate reflection of costs incurred, although I, like many others, wouldn't mind being able to pay less. I don't believe the off peak prices accurately reflect the costs involved. I'd go as far as to say you don't even cover the cost of fuel on some of the more empty flights. There are laws that govern this. Strictly speaking you shouldn't be able to buy a ticket that doesn't cover all the costs.

So as I said it doesn't help the profiteering image for the masses. Naturally we then question how a summer holiday costs that much more.

Air travel in particular has an additional problem. Airlines bid for slots and schedules. They then have to fulfil those schedules regardless. So they have to run services in the winter months at a loss, hence some pretty wacky prices. Therefore when the route is busy they will try and re-coup the cost. Broadly the European scheduled airlines will try and make money from business travel, but as business move to low cost seats this further pushes up peak seat prices.

In BA there is a department of over 100 people just optimising the revenue/capacity. They have complex tools and a massive quantity of historical data to do trend analysis. Getting this wrong by less than 5% means the difference between profit an loss, capacity typically runs just below 80%. The Airline and travel industry is not a cash rich one, as my pay freeze will tell, and is hugely reliant on fuel pricing.

Charter airlines. such as Thomas Cook don't have such restrictions. They bid for a selection of slots not linked to a timetable and will just operate in peak times. They use these flights as part of their package deals but you can often pick them up as flights only and they are invariably cheaper than the scheduled alternative.

Why not? Taking that argument to its extreme, the first person to buy a ticket on that train/plane/whatever is going to have to fund the entire cost of the journey. Everyone else will get to travel for free, since it's already paid for and you don't seem to want the companies to make any profit.

Seems a touch unfair on the first person, no? I know, perhaps they could estimate how many people are likely to use the service and divide the cost, plus some profit, between them all - if fewer get on, they lose, if more get on, they win.

Or even, if (say) a franchise requires that they operate a service which has only a few passengers, they might reduce the price in order to encourage new users?

(Which abstracts back to the argument about stopping fogey's bus passes: we have to stop them because they're costing the bus services money. In fact they're not: they cost the local council money since it's charged back to them; the bus is going there anyway; and only if a full-paying customer is displaced by a free ticket is there any loss - and that limited to the difference between the full ticket and what the council pays.)

Why not? Because it's governed by EU law. Predatory pricing is banned to allow all airlines to compete, and as Bockers points out forecasting can be highly accurate.


And which bit of what I wrote doesn't want companies to make profit?

Apologies; I must have assigned to you what someone else wrote.

Though the question is then 'what is predatory pricing'?

Clicky

Har har

If you can't buy a ticket that does not cover the cost, that does not mean that the cost is somehow magically not incurred. Leasing the plane, payments to the airport, staff wages, contracts with suppliers etc. Planes do not get free parking at airports whilst they wait until people are prepared to a certain amount for their tickets.

What it means is that the airline does not sell as many tickets and to avoid making an even bigger loss will have to push up prices at times when demand is greater and people have less flexibility - like school holidays.

As parents of two (5 & 7) we looked at EVERY option to take the kids skiing in Jan/Feb this year. In the end we decided to take the kids out of school for a week (both have excelled in their relevant years). We rightly applied for holiday and had the application rejected, but went anyway, mainly as the cost of the holiday was around £2200.00, to change the holiday to the school break was going to cost an additional £1600.00 on top. The max fine the school could impose (if we paid straight away) was £60 per child.... a total saving of £1080.00.

Now both head teachers told us they don't agree with the new goverment ruling but there is nothing they could do.

Moving onto summer.... Centreparcs.... the week before the summer school holiday, the lodge I was looking at was £699 for the week, the first week of the school holiday the same lodge £999. Nothing changes except the price.

Now working in the Motor trade, and as we all drive a car on here, how would you like servicing to be more expensive on a Monday and Tuesday, bit cheaper Wednesday and Thursday but 50% cheaper on a Friday... no-one wants there car serviced on a Friday... But Saturdays 200% more cos it's more convenient you you as the owner. That would just be the garage trying to make extra money from people who find it easier etc to get work done at the beginning of the week.

The holiday companies etc exploit the fact that X thousands of parents with kids will stick to the goverment ruling and only take there kids away during the school holidays, and by doing this make more money.

Emjay, while that is all true airlines are remarkably good at forecasting passenger numbers and load factors. They won't take a slot unless they have a strong understanding of the demographic and viability. So thinking out loud, are the off peak prices too cheap?

What a load of tosh. It has always been the case that holidays are more expensive during school holidays. That has not changed.

The only change is that schools are not letting people take their children out term time any more. The holidays have not suddenly gone up, they have always been expensive.

Car servicing is not an equivalent comparison either. Although why should I pay more to have my car serviced in London as opposed to Newcastle?

If you commute by train you pay more during peak times so that the trains companies can both make a profit and cover the costs of running trains during off peak hours.
You pay more for a theatre ticket on a Saturday than you will on a Tuesday too.

It's the law of supply and demand. Parents bleating about their "right" to have an overseas holiday being compromised by the higher prices need to wake up to reality.

I speak as one who has had children who are now in their twenties but whose wife still works at a school. It's annoying but it is life in a capitalist society.