Just sold my 16v na to a chap and he was picking it up this Sunday

I promised to change the belts as they were due

Changed them yesterday afternoon and this evening the car was running quite nicely in the garage

And then CLUNK. Instant stop and a slight rubber burn smell

Obvious there is going to be valve damage after the instant stop but I thought it must have snapped one of the new belts but one I took the cover off they are both ok

The only thing that odd is that the cams are now out of alignment

I have to assume one has jumped some teeth but why is a mystery

The belts were tight ( maybe a little too tight )

I now have a very disappointed new owner who's deposit I'm now refunding and several hours of faffing about getting the head off

Oh joy. Not

Bad luck there chap! Lets hope its an easy fix.

Bad luck! I had something similar happen to a Bravo many years back. It idled for 30 minutes, then dropped two teeth from the belt. We think an oil blockage in the head caused the cam to become stiff.

I hope you sort it. It looked a very nice car in the pics!

Cheers guys

It really has me scratching my head

All the time marks were lined up

I rotated it several times by hand before starting

Oh well better than sitting in front of the TV in these warm summer nights

Oh no! And she's such a beauty too. I do hope you will be able to fix her up.

that's a shame , hope its an easy fix for you .

Fingers crossed frary, what a nightmare. Hope it's do-able.

I hope it is a straight forward fix.

But out of interest how difficult is it to put a 20vt engine in a 16v as your coop body/chassis condition must be one of the best ones out there?

Very difficult indeed and pretty pointless. 16v cars are rare.

Fixed that for you Pete!

Best of luck to the op!

Well I'm thinking I may have made a school boy error

I just couldn't figure out why and then it hit me

When I refitted the bottom pulley I noticed there is a slot in the end of the crank shaft for a woodruff key and I didn't put one back so I guess it must have fell on the floor

This means that all the lowers pullies were held on with the big nut and I think the pulley has moved which would explain the sudden stop because the crank sensor pickup would move out of time and cause a miss fire and I'm hoping the clunk noise was my paranoia

Will have a look tonight ...... Fingers crossed

Careful James, worm and can of, springs to mind!

Lets hope you're right Fray, good luck

Frary are you going tell me if it's a 1.8 or 2.0 litre??? I've only asked you twice in you parts want thread?

Nick

Bum luck!
If it makes you feel any better my VT once jumped 3 teeth for no reason and the only damage was it needing new belts etc!

Good luck.

Frary - if you rebuild that engine rather than hunting down a replacement (or at least a replacement head) don't forget to replace the big end bearings. Otherwise, it'll all stop in the next few thousand miles - they get flat-spotted from the impact through the con-rod.

I speak from dire experience.

Sorry to read this and hope you manage to get it sorted

Nick D
sorry mate ...its a 20L 16v n\a

thanks Barnicle but it was only at idle

righti took th eafternoon off and have found out what the issue was

the cam cover have round metal sleaves that the fitting bolts go through

well guess what ........ went to take the bottom pulley off and there lays one of the sleaves all nicely jamed in the bottom pulley.................AAAAHHHHH all this for a 5pence peice of metal

i will put a picture on later

good news is that the head is ready to come off

oh yes im sure ive bent an exhaust valve becouse you cant do a complete turn on teh can pulley with out it getting stuck

this is teh affending article



found jamed down here

How on earth was that floating around? That looks like one of the centres of the ICV mount but that's at the other end... can't visualise the part in question. Rather implies a missing bolt somewhere?

Seems like the the perfect excuse to convert to 16v turbo now??
Question is are the 16v na & 16vt pistons same size??
Alternatively are there lower compression pistons available for you na block, as I'm assuming compression would need to be lowered with the addition of a turbo charger?? Prob easier to find complete 16vt lump!?
That way one of the best looking coops around will have the umph to match it's looks!!
Wanna buy an engine???

Nick

Barnacle you havent read my earlier post

its one of the sleeves that the bolts on the cambelt cover goes through

its wasnt done up and i guess it fell out ..........

Nick-d i would tove to do a turbo swap but commom belief is that although the engine and turbo is easy enough its the electrics that are the stumbling point


on a good note its only an exhaust valve thats bent and the head is now ready to come off anf the only reason its still on is becouse i havnt got a T60 Torx bit (but i will have tomorrow)

i have undon the inlet manifold as well but as far as i can tell its near on impossible to lift out whilst teh head is on

at least im heading in teh right direction

i feel most sorry for poor old Bruce who drove all the way from North Lincs to ours on Sunday and paid a deposite to buy the car and was going to pick it up this weekend
(i have refunded his deposite and given hm an extra couple of bob for his fuel, he also has first dibs on it whsn its done )

Ah, the belt cover. I was reading *cam* cover and couldn't make sense... yep, sounds like something wasn't done up, or was missed out, or poked the spacer through somehow.

There are a couple of bolts on the bottom of the support arm/bracket for the inlet manifold which have to be removed.

The head is off and tomorrow I will start taking out the valves

Not really spotted any obvious signs of damage

A quick update

The heads been off for a few days now and oddly enough there are no marks on the pistons or valves which indicate they have come into contact with each other

The head had sat upside down and filled with WD40 to see if any of the valves are leaking ( and possibly bent) and none are leaking

It's going to my mechanic friend early next week to take the valves out to see if they are ok ( my valves spring compressor is knackered ) ( will change stem seals at the same time)

I'm a little bit mystified that there appears to be no damage , especially as the cam belt had slipped a few teeth and when it happened I took the belt off and turned the inlet cam with my torque wrench and it turned ok but when I tried to do the same with the exhaust can it would only turn about a third before it got "stuck" and wouldn't turn anymore making me think the valves were bent

Can't help thinking I may have over reacted .......

One other problem I have is when I undid the the bolts that hd the cam caps down I twisted the cam oil feed pipe( held down by the same bolts)and it came apart
I can get them on a lancia site but they are nearly £ 30 each

Hopefully by the end of next week I should be starting to put it all back together

Another odd thing is that at least two vacume pipes were spilt and not confected. , one was the one that goes to the atmospheric pressure sensor .... So I have no idea how the engine was running at all

And nearly all the inlet manifold mounting nuts were only hand tight and to be fair the head bolts weren't particularly tight ether


On a bonus side I do now have shiny clean piston tops

Frary, if you're turning the cams with the pistons still in place but not linked via the belt, whether the cam will turn depends on the position of the crank. It's feasible that in the right (wrong?) position of the crank, one cam will turn but not the other.

Hi Barnacle

i thought the same thing but not till i had attacked it all with me spanners

when it first happened my machanic mate said dont panic , time it all up again and try a restart ...........but in my wisdom i didnt listen and when i couldtnt turn the exhaust cam a complete turn i put two and two together and came up with twelve.......

so i may have stripped it all down for nothing

what i cant get my head round is that the little collar i found in the bottom pulley is no way man enough to just stop the engine like it did ......(although the collar was quite badly chewed up there was ni sign of damage to the belt)

im now thinking that one cam jumped a few teeth and that was enough to put it all out of time enough for the engine to just stop.......bare in mind it was cold and idling


or it could all be a big sign to say ....PLEASE DONT SELL ME....

It's soft, but hard enough to cause the belt to jump a few teeth. Which is probably enough to stop it, or prevent it starting, while not allowing any pistons to meet valves.

Hope so

Valves at 17quid each

Cheer up - when I broke a belt, many years ago, the valves were eighty quid each...

£80 each ..........that has cheered me up