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How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
#1496168
28/06/2014 20:13
28/06/2014 20:13
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digitalundgrd
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digitalundgrd
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Hi all, I want to ask if somebody knows how much boost, the stock 16vT headgasket can handle (without failure)? Now I am running 1,35 bar peak and 1.2 hold boost (1.15 bar from 6000rpm to 7000rpm). The car is remapped (live mapping on the road). AFR is OK 11.3-11.7 when on boost. My specs are : - turbo Garrett T3 Super 60 + FMIC - 3" downpipe + 3" straight exhaust - 440cc Bosch green injectors + 3.3 bar FPR + walbro 255 + wiring mod - Kappa Inlet Manifold - N/A cams - SIP + HKS mushroom filter - Colder plugs I am thinking about increasing the boost up to 1.5 bar peak, 1.3 bar hold to the redline but I am not sure if the stock headgasket will survive these boost levels? Ofcourse the car will be remapped again so that the AFR will be correct after the increased boost. After that the car will be dynoed. What do you think how many hp (engine) I should expect with : - 1.35 peak and 1.15 bar hold boost - 1.5 peak and 1.3 bar hold boost
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1496174
28/06/2014 21:23
28/06/2014 21:23
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829 kidderminster
nick_d
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
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Posts: 1,829
kidderminster
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Wouldn't bother upping boost... Your super 60 is prob making asmuch power your engine spec is capable of.... Your prob running around 280/280 bhp and torques at mo...... Your next step (mod) for me should be T34.48 turbo, with the same boost your running now you would see 310-320 bhp,... In answer to your question anyways, I don't think it would be recommended to push stock head gasket to 1.5 bar! Nick
368bhp @ 1.5 bar
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1496181
28/06/2014 22:13
28/06/2014 22:13
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 129 Zagreb, CRO
Jopa_zgd
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 129
Zagreb, CRO
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If your engine is properly mapped, you will have no problem with head gasket, ever But head bolts, that could be problem.. Friend driving @ 2.5 bar with gtx35 (with diesel head bolts) and never had a single problem with head gasket
Last edited by Jopa_zgd; 28/06/2014 22:13.
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1496384
30/06/2014 13:17
30/06/2014 13:17
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Shotdown
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Shotdown
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the cometic head gasket is kinda cheap, if you put this money for car why no pay a little more? about 120+/- USD and you done
anyway im +/- same spec as you my mod: 630cc siemnse deka injectors cometic 1.3mm head gasket turbonetics T3/T4 AR.48 turbo Front mount intercooler Lancia thema N/A inlet camshaft 3bar fuel pressure regulator Walbro 255L + wire mode
i will order map from KJ16 soon and i estimate to get about 320+/- HP with 1.35bar boost
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1496605
02/07/2014 08:08
02/07/2014 08:08
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Brickfoot
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Brickfoot
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td0516g, twin scroll from Evo6 Forge dual port turbo actuator Forge recirc dumpvalve Evo 6 IC 630 Siemens Kappa inlet 3 bar FP 3 bar Map sensor MSD High output Coils and leads B8eg sparkplugs 3" downpipe and cat eliminator Boost controller for dual port actuator Supersprint exhaust Stock very very good engine with 70000 miles Flea map and 1,7 bar Assembling as we speak Probbably forgot something
Last edited by Brickfoot; 02/07/2014 10:36.
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1496624
02/07/2014 10:37
02/07/2014 10:37
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829 kidderminster
nick_d
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829
kidderminster
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Should spool super fast that spec!! Make sure you post up your graphs ASAP! Hoping to get mine re-mapped before end August, just finishing installing gt2871/3071 hybrib along with turbo smart external waste gate... Should make a nice noise hopefully!
368bhp @ 1.5 bar
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1496628
02/07/2014 11:13
02/07/2014 11:13
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Brickfoot
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Brickfoot
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Probbably getting dyno time in september (working one month on/off) so will do then:)
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: nick_d]
#1496635
02/07/2014 13:05
02/07/2014 13:05
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,296 Sandhurst
Begbie
ex El Presidente
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ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,296
Sandhurst
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Should spool super fast that spec!! Make sure you post up your graphs ASAP! Hoping to get mine re-mapped before end August, just finishing installing gt2871/3071 hybrib along with turbo smart external waste gate... Should make a nice noise hopefully! I'm sure you said that last year
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1496672
02/07/2014 17:22
02/07/2014 17:22
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Shotdown
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Shotdown
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i use external tial 38mm with open air scream pipe
every time i kick down gas peddal i wake up all the city!!! yaamm
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1496685
02/07/2014 19:05
02/07/2014 19:05
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Brickfoot
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Brickfoot
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Im going ultra stealth.. Supersprint rear exhaust ,recirc dump, stock 16" wheels (with some ultra sticky rubbers:) going use it most for shows/trackdays and the odd sunday., maby 3000 miles a year, 99% of the cars here are 2l 16v so everyone will think it has 155bhp. Wich will be fun on the trackdays
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1496691
02/07/2014 20:24
02/07/2014 20:24
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Shotdown
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Shotdown
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yea cool thinking the 1 thing i cant understand is how funny look 16" on the coupe, its lock's too small. but i like the 20VT rims, looks alot better then the oem 16vt
i switched to light whight Lenso 17" and the car feel's alot quicker then before P:
anyway. you running stock engine? no head gasket? no pistons etc?
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1496696
02/07/2014 21:20
02/07/2014 21:20
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Brickfoot
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Brickfoot
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Yes completely stock, but keep in mind the engine has done 70000 miles, it had a timing belt failure at 55000 where rods and main bearings where inspected/changed, pistons and rings where changed and the head overhauled. Im running a evo 6 manifold and turbo so backpressure and exhaust temp is WAY less than stock, im uppgrading all the "boring" things like coils, leads, turbo actuator, boost cotroller, boost solenoid, vacuum hoses and so on. Just to be sure everything is top notch. Im taking it straight to a dyno, logging all parameters, so flea can give it the final touch. AND if it disintergrates it self i have an excuse to.........
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1496719
02/07/2014 23:52
02/07/2014 23:52
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Brickfoot
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Brickfoot
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So, to answer your question digital lundegård? (Er det riktig?):) The maximum boost it can handle is equal to the boost that will kill the engine minus a smidge wich sums up tuning quite well me thinx
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1497501
07/07/2014 20:53
07/07/2014 20:53
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digitalundgrd
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digitalundgrd
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digitalundgrd = digital underground 1.7 bar is very promising SO 1.3 bar is for the "kindergarten" However now in Bulgaria is a bit hot (32 C) and definitely not the right time for increasing the boost Maybe after August... At the moment I'm upgrading the brakes, because stock 284mm mtec discs and EBC redstuff were not up to the job. My new set up is Lancia Kappa 20vt 4 pot brembo with 305mm discs http://s30.postimg.org/e5ehydiq9/52565395_1_800x600.jpg
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1497509
07/07/2014 22:01
07/07/2014 22:01
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Shotdown
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Shotdown
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does the kappa calipers fit plug and play? or need modify?
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1497514
07/07/2014 22:16
07/07/2014 22:16
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digitalundgrd
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digitalundgrd
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They need custom brackets. They are not plug and play.
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1497658
08/07/2014 21:18
08/07/2014 21:18
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Brickfoot
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Brickfoot
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[quote=digitalundgrd]digitalundgrd = digital underground 1.7 bar is very promising SO 1.3 bar is for the "kindergarten" However now in Bulgaria is a bit hot (32 C) and definitely not the right time for increasing the boost Maybe after August... Its all down to your turbo really, at what boost/flow does the efficiency fall so much that it just blows hot air? The evo6 turbo hits this spot at 1,6-1,7 bar and 350-390hp a gtx5518 can do 3,5 to 4 bar with 1200hp With the same efficiency. Turn your boost up and get it tuned while its hot outside not sure where the limit is on the super60 but im sure flea or someone will be telling you shortly
Last edited by Brickfoot; 08/07/2014 21:34.
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1497840
09/07/2014 22:34
09/07/2014 22:34
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,728 London
kj16v
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,728
London
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Nick_d got it spot on at the top of the page: 280-300 bhp at 1.4 bar will max out a super-60 on a 16VT. 1.7 bar on an essentially stock 16VT engine will result in more torque - just before crack the No.3 piston ringland! Don't fixate on just running as much boost possible. More boost doesn't always mean more power. Besides, good tuning is about making more power with less boost - THEN we turn the boost up!
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1498168
11/07/2014 19:10
11/07/2014 19:10
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Brickfoot
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Brickfoot
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I guess your saying 1,4 is the most the s60 will do up top and will only manage 1,7 in the midrange? Or are you saying that 1,7 bar will crack ringlands regardless of turbo, manifold and such on a stock engine?
Last edited by Brickfoot; 11/07/2014 19:11.
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1498187
11/07/2014 21:33
11/07/2014 21:33
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Brickfoot
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Brickfoot
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I know, just wasnt sure what kj ment about ringlands on 1,7bar . Im more afraid of exhaust temps and unexpected lean outs than boost it self.. As long as everything is top notch and in good shape i dont worry. Problem with theese cars is that they are 20 years old and if a guy wrings out 1,4 bar on a 60 trim and breaks a piston at only 250hp because of a 20 year old injector that sticks on the odd occasion leaning out that cyliinder suddenly half of the camp says that everything above 250hp will kill a stock engine. The other half is sure that more than 1,4 bar will do it. There are tons of things that can give up after 20 years and 150000 miles pluss. Keep everything important like sensors, injectors etc new or as good as new keep exhaust temps a hair on the safe side get a good good tune and i think we could all be pretty shocked over what it would take.. Really makes me want to get hold of a boxnew engine and strap a GTX3576 to the side of it...
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1498636
15/07/2014 03:08
15/07/2014 03:08
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,728 London
kj16v
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,728
London
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Yep, that's what I'm talking about (assuming it wasn't det that killed those ring lands above) Maybe it's better to talk of torque instead of boost when talking about pistons. Afterall, it's not the boost per se that kills ring lands it's the heat and cylinder pressure (and the resultant torque) - and a stock 16VT engine on stock cams produces a lot of both for amount of horsepower it produces. Basically the stock cams are set up for torque over power. Stock pistons are comparatively brittle and crack with too much cylinder pressure. While forged pistons, in comparison, are tough (in the engineering sense of the word) and would just expand under the same conditions. Over the years, I've gone through so many 16VT engine and turbo setups I can barely remember them all. I do remember with one particular setup I made 333 lbsft with just 1.3 bar *yep that's right, 1.3 bar*. Now that definitely killed the stock pistons! So, yes, I'd say it is more accurate to talk of torque instead of boost. So in my professional opinion I'd say it's best to keep torque on an engine with stock pistons definitely below 330 lbsft and probably 300 lbsft max for safety. And if you get your setup right in the first place you won't need 1.7 bar to get there
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1498722
15/07/2014 15:13
15/07/2014 15:13
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Brickfoot
Unregistered
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Brickfoot
Unregistered
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Yep totally agree Im probbably in for a hell of a suprise torquewise Anyway, interresting to see what it will do, probbably superfast spool and good driveable power. Flying off to pick up a Dedra Integrale Friday so we all know where this is going (oh my ) im pretty sure it has the new engineblock with frontmount oilpump but no balanceshafts.. So good prospect for some forged TLC next winter
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Re: How much boost with stock headgasket (16VT)?
[Re: ]
#1499739
22/07/2014 15:59
22/07/2014 15:59
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Shotdown
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Shotdown
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ahh!!! paint them to orange/yellow will brake the grey/black look
anyway look's great! i wish in israel this parts was easy to get; italian car is rare here XD
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