Hey guy's,

i need your help figuring out something.
I currently drive a '96 2.0 16 VT as a daily driver back and forth to work and i will be doing so for quite a while, i love the car in every way. the car is now in the hands of 2 dutch guy's for some big maintenance, for example changing the clutch, oil change, filter change, new sparks, etc etc.
2 day's ago i got a message from them that they've found all sorts of other problems with the car, to many to sum up and translation off some from dutch to English is beyond my capability's. end result is on top of the 1000€ i had planned for the clutch and maintenance i am looking at a other 1400€ to get the car on the road again. And this is where it gets tricky.
I asked them to have a look at the engine and the body to see if the car overall condition is good enough to actually spend a total of 2400€ on a 18 year old car. Don't get me wrong if i can ill take it with me to the grave but in some case's it better to cut your losses and start over with a other one.
So they had a look in the engine, and of course as i and you suspected there are also problems there.
2 out of the 4 cylinders aren't giving there max pressure, etc etc. total cost about 1300€. So i am looking at a total pic of around 4000€ to get my car on the road again.
And here comes my question to you lot.
One of the guy's working on my car asked me if i ever planned on buying a 20 VT or if i wanted to stick with a 16 VT. If i want a 20 its better to cut my loses now and save my money for a 20VT.
The problem is i can't answer that question cause i have no idea how the 20VT drives in comparison to the 16 VT. I never thought about a 20 VT cause i thought they where to expensive as a daily driver.
So to all who know the difference, who have a idea/thought about this can you please let me know.
I love the 16 VT, its brutal in acceleration, handles like a gem, i have no idea about 20 VT's what so ever.
I just need to get a good eye on the difference between the 2 cars so i can make up my mind if i want to save my 16 or go straight for a 20.
Thank you all in advance.

Are you sure those guys are honest with you or they just want to take more money? You said that you use the car every day and if there were so many broken parts, you must already have noticed the issues with the engine for example.

i am 99% sure these guy's are honest, that they work on the coupe to keep them running for as long as they can. they come highly recommended in the dutch/German/French part of the coupe world by several different people and they charge basically nothing for there work in comparison to other fiat specialists I've visited. This is my first coupe, first real car with high horse power and acceleration. don't know that much yet about engine and dusk always knew there was 'something' wrong with the car, just no idea what.
The engine problems is wear and tear. cylinders and valves that ran there course, crank shaft ( not sure this is the right translation) that needs re balancing etc etc.

They are both as expensive as each other. 20VT engines are easier to obtain at the moment and 16vt engine parts are becoming increasingly rare. Having driven both the differences are with the engine note. The performance and handling in everyday use is similar.

I prefer the later interior changes and the wheels of the 20Vs but that is a personal preference as it make no difference in use. In the UK the 20v is the more popular car mainly because more were sold, the 16v was only about for a couple of years, and hence why the majority of the how to guides are biased in that manner. The 20v is a later car and benefited from changes as the model went on and when buying one there will be far more choice.

You may well find the decision made for you when you attempt to find a 16VT that satisfies your standards.

If it were me I would get the 16vt sorted. That is the car you know and like.

Thanks Bockers for the info,

from what i can read/hear the diff between the two is indeed 'small' performance and handeling wise. the 16 is more brutal in acceleration, the 20 goes faster top speed etc.
Rarity wise both models are unseen in my country (Belgium) with the 20 a bit more seen then the 16.
I got a shot at a 20 VT from one of the dutch guy's working on my car now but thats in a year or two and it perfect condition but of course with a nice ( read high) price tag.
I am leaning to fixing the 16 myself, purely cause if i sell it and have to save up for a 20 it'll take me a year or two maybe 3 to do so and it would mean i need to drive something else witch i don't want to at all. i want a coupe.
Only part about the 16 that 'scares' me is not knowing what else could/will brake down over time.
I am aware that my 16 at some point will have to be strip down and treated for and against rust, and that this will cost me a other 3000€ give or take a few hundred. This however doesn't bother me cause it is the price to pay to try and keep a 18 year old car on the road.

Put a new clutch in the 16VT and use it until the engine goes bang. I would say youll get many more miles out of the 16VT, they can take a pretty good beating.

Do you have the compression results?

1. 11.25
2. 9.5
3. 9.5
4. 12.25

holds oil pressure when warm and stationary at around 2 bars.

If i fix the 16vt it'll have new suspension,
new clutch with everything concerning the clutch also replaced. engine supports re done, oil pan new, radiator fixed, new belts, new filters, new cat, new down-pipe, pretty much every rubber of the engine, transmission and clutch replaced, thermostats new, inside of the engine so crankshaft and cylinders will be redone and realigned or how ever you say that. body work of the car will be rust free and treated, and new brake pads in the front. some other stuff i cant translate and this for little less then 4000€. Anyone any idea what else can break on the car or would need replacement except the normal wear and tear things after i do this?

That should be most of the big stuff - other possible things like alternators, CV joints, air con condensors (in the UK at least) aren't likely to break the bank if / when they need doing

Suspension?

I second this view and can say from experience that I've seen many 16vt running on uneven compression that are still driving around happily today.

The guys running the garage have followed your instructions, they have looked over the car and given you a full report on any and all other issues they've found so they've done a thorough job as far as that's concerned.

16v models are very rare in the UK so if it was mine I'd do what was needed other then the engine work and monitor the compression rates at home on a monthly basis, it takes 15mins.

Me and my partner are honest people and well known for our service and maintenance. I can tell you all that i dont need more money, instead we have made an price without laybor for him because of all the bad luck Tony had with the purchase of the car.

I don,t know what problems had your engine, but for 4k euro i can deliver directly to your door my fully rebuilded 20VT engine(3k km on , with all bearings, piston rings and gasket changed and most of all a year and half old GT28RS turbo)with 6 paddle clutch and gearbox.
I'm speaking literally, but if i have to offer it to someone, it will be unreal go get 4k eu for this......

prices between england and belgium/holland are huge. here a coupe like you mention will be worth a lot more then 4k euro's.
The coupe i am getting from jimmy is worth around 7k euro's.
i think its because there are so much more coup's in england then there are in belgium/holland. problem for me to be fair would be the hole right side driving position. my work place requires me to badge in and out everyday witch is on the left side driving position.
Otherwise one hell of a deal Ferrarist, one hell of a deal, got any pic's of this car? got a friend looking for one, you never know right.

And worst - i told you prices from Bulgaria......
I won't sell my engine for 4k because i put so much effort and time for that car, just trying to explain that from my point of view it's way too expensive.
Did my engine rebuild for approximate 400Eu(rings and all bearings with cyl head), new GT28 turbo for about 700eu, Flea stage 3 remap, and all this for less than 1500EU....did that with my both hands so no labor included.
There is 20VT engines on eBay sometimes, and rarely cost more than 200 - 300GBP......
But as i said - it's just my point of view, i understand that there is price differences between eastern and western EU......labor differs as well......

You need to be realistic with the prices. If you take the materials you'll need for a engine rebuild, then it will set you back a lot more then 400 euro's. This is offcourse when you want to do it right.

What i think is a full engine rebuild and going forged is a lot more what you describe here.

did ballancing and overhaul the taps of the crankshaft? did you do anything on headwork?
Is the gasket and the bolts made of paper?
Timing belt second hand?
Forged, what is forged in Bulgaria?
Changed the piston rings in the engine instead of taking them out?
Valves not centric aligned?
Valves all perfectly seal the burn room?
Do you have same compression in burning room of the cilinderhead?
What about renewel of the valve seals?
What kind of bearings?
what about crankshaft seals?

I can go on like this for an hour but i think you catch my drift.

The labor here in holland is for a italian specialist about 70 euro's, guess how many hours this work is taking.

If you look what kind of work needs to be done on Tony's Coop, you will probably scratch the back of you're head and start thinking this is rather cheap.

This post is not to insult you in any way, but make people aware of the costs.

Well , no one mention forged rebuild or GTX4502Rin this equation after all.....that changes a lot....
I did 80% of your engine rebuild list......
It's just my opinion, no offence taken....and understand your point.....