Get stuck in!

I'm firmly in the No camp. I think we should remain a Union. However my stance has been undermined since Frankie Boyle said he supports a Yes vote. Anything that gets him off our telly works for me.

As long as enough Scottish people want it and vote for it, who is anyone else to refuse them?
On the other hand, independence from a previous union is a two way street and there will be costs to Scotland for becoming independent; in my view both the remaining UK nations and Scotland will lose out.

Absolutely. I think Scotland has more to lose, but none of us will be better off.

Oh dear J_C and RK agreeing.

I'm in the No camp (I get to vote too) - I don't think it will do Scotland any good. I've not actually met a real person who think Yes is a good idea.

I'm undecided at present.
Isn't there a massive irony that the current Government supports the Union while saying that one of the benefits to a No vote will be continued EU membership for Scotland, yet that same Government will apparently support an Exit vote in an EU referendum in approx. 2 years time?

Politicians are a nuisance.

I don't get a vote, but I don't see an independent Scotland improving things for the scots.

I do think that all the UK electorate should have been given the opportunity of putting their views, as an independent Scotland would affect the whole balance of the UK.

Well, if there is a yes vote, then the horse-trading will start for real. I think there will be a remarkable number of things that hadn't been considered that will become big issues.
A definite case of the devil being in the detail.

Some friends of ours have an interesting time ahead; he is one of the leading lights of the yes campaign, she is a stout defender of the no lobby!

I may need a passport to go to work in Corby!

There may be a certain type of voter that will vote for independance just to stir things up. Lets call them Celtic supporters for instance.
Thier vote will possibly have nothing to do with the good of Scotland.
I cant see the benifit for Scotland though. For all its rights and wrongs in general the union works imo.

Wow, that took you an 11-minute eternity Jim, safe and "asoleandote" *

The detail....yes indeed, this should be made plain before the vote, not after which can only lead to an extended period of uncertainty, the enemy of financial support.

Up here there are not a few folk who don't nail their colours to the mast for fear of having their windows put in. The spectrum of voters across both sides is wide, teachers, artists, blue/white-collars - all split.

One thing is sure, a fundamental change resulting from a Yes vote will take perhaps a generation to recover from which is a) unattractive to folk such as ourselves who will not outlast that period and b) attractive to the (?pimply) 16-year-olds who have been politically enfranchised for the occasion. Even after this time there's no guarantee it'll work or not.

Historically I can certainly see reasons for discontent from Scots to the English as many nations worldwide have shown toward countries which have invaded them.

Don't forget that the Act of Union of 1707 was almost inevitable, Scotland on its economic knees and squeezed out of aid from anywhere. Already precariously impecunious in the late 1690's the Scots noblity (and others to a lesser degree) with any money decided on the ambitious project to form a colony in Darien, an inhospitable region of Panama, attempting to emulate most other European countries' trading successes. Nearly a third of the Scottish wealth was sunk into two disastrous expeditions - not helped by the Spanish or the English.

South of the border the vultures assembled and the deal was done, paying off Scotland's debts and greasing a coup[le of dozen palms into the bargain.

All very unfortunate really, a good idea but the wrong place and optimistically projected.

I'm absolutely fine for identity and local culture but this union is so well-established I fear for such a schism.






*gettin' a wee tan 'nat"

As with everything else, too.much smoke, mirrors and Bollocks. If the truth was told, the real consequences for both sides you could make a rational decision but while we're all.fed crap for disconnected politicians no one can really say what's right or wrong.

Perhaps Surrey could vote for independence?

If president Obama said we should stay as a union then we should do as he says!

I don't think it would be good for Scotland to have independence, Alex Salmond's ideas of Scotland becoming the wealthiest nation in the world pretty much sums up his political prowess. The school children he's selling these ideas to will be disappointed when they aren't driving around the streets of Glasgow in Rolls Royce like Arabs of the North.

It's nonsense coming from self serving politicians and out of touch celebrities south of the border, along with ill informed patronising or trivial comments by those who have no idea (and no vote) why the residents of Scotland would even consider Independence - that has turned many toward a Yes vote. I would vote for anything that got us shot of the corrupt lot sitting in Westminister who no longer represent us, but instead represent financial institutions and global business. So an Independent Britain free of London would do, but that is not on offer, so I'll be voting YES because it's best for Scotland and it's residents.

I welcome the views of others who do have a vote in the referendum.

Hell no.

The lack of financial acumen of our MSP's was perfectly demonstrated in the parliament building fiasco going more than 10x over budget and no one being held accountable. It escapes me why anyone thinks they'd be any more competent with a completely free hand on the nation's budget.

We'd see a massive swing to the left politically which would no doubt benefit some in the short term but in the long term I think would end in tears, especially once the oil runs out.

I think the "no" vote will win this time, but they'll keep on voting until they get a "yes" and then stop voting. The "yes" mob will of course make increasingly generous (but impossible to fulfill) promises at each round of voting, until they finally persuade enough people that they'll benefit financially from a split.

I'm pro nuclear power, pro nuclear weapons and anti marxist politically correct bullshit, all of which puts me strongly at odds with the SNP.

Half an hour watching these clowns "debating" on the BBC Scotland parliament channel is enough to make me cringe at the mere thought of them actually having free reign over the country.

Having said all that I've never voted for anything in my life before and not sure that I'll start now, but I probably will this time and it would definitely be a "no".

It's just self important Alex salmond trying trying to create a powerful position for himself he's just power hungry and will bull shot everybody to get himself into a position of power as without an independent Scotland he's a nobody there you go that's my opinion!

So what about the nonsense from the self serving politicians in Edinburgh and out of touch celebrities like Sean Connery who has'nt lived in any part of the UK almost as long as I've been alive?
If you think that's what is best for Scotland is much higher taxes and a short lived benefits driven economy before the family siller is sold off to the highest bidder, by all means vote Yes, because all the Yes campaign is offering other than very vague assertions is looming bankruptcy.
Salmond does'nt even believe in an independent Scotland free from London - his stated position is that he wants a currency union, meaning that we would not be independent at all, we would have lip service "freedom" with all the important economic decisions being taken by the UK but Alex would be fine because he'd be the big I am.
The top 4 or 5 biggest employers in Scotland are the UK government, jobs which will fly south of the border if independence happens despite the assertions of various SNP MSPs that of course they will stay here because we're all part of the same country ( nationalism and independence 101 fail right there ).
Scotland only has a financial market because of the financial power and backing of the UK - notwithstanding that the mental midget Nicola Sturgeon has already holed any chance of an independent Scotland being able to borrow on international money markets by publicly threatening that we would not pay our share of UK national debt.
Someone I know recently said that he was voting yes but was'nt a nationalist and when I pointed out that promoting independence was a dictionary definition for nationalism he replied that he meant he did'nt support the SNP and "you don't stop buying a house because you don't like the wallpaper." - my answer was we're not buying a house, we already own it and what we're deciding to do is whether or not to enter into an unbreakable property management contract with people who want to make us get rid of three quarters of the house and pay through the nose for the privilege .... no answer from him on that point.
All this guff about becoming independent because some of us don't like some of the things the UK government do, that's democracy for you - does that mean that if some of us in an independent Scotland don't like what the gpvernment are doing we can secede too? The Democratic Republic of Shetland? The Kingdom of Aberdeenshire? Salmond could hardly refuse us a vote now, could he? Sounds like Italy in the dark ages and medievel times , a land of city states always at each others' throats.

For "corrupt lot" in Westminster replace it instead with "corrupt lot" in power in Scotland.......anyone thinking they won't become the same is deluding themselves

I dont give a monkeys about Alex Salmond it's not about him or a vote for any political party or political ideology. I hardly think that anyone on the forum from England is going to agree with Independence for Scotland so it's a foregone conlusion what the majority opinion in this thread will be.

Yes but you got to try and I'd prefer my own corrupt politicians

For me the difference is that Westminster government tends to swing left and right over time (the 2 main parties have both become more central during my lifetime as well), which for me being politically fairly central gives a reasonable balance in the long term.

A Scottish parliament would likely be left, more left or even more left, which in the long term treads dangerous waters, even if for the remote possibility for an eventual swing to the far right which may come as a result of a failed far left government.

In short, I guess I prefer the long term stabilty of the status quo.

That is a little like a German in 1933 saying that he only voted for Hitler because he liked the trains to run on time.

... and of all the identifiable Scots giving voice so far, yours is the only clear vote for Yes

Why would people from England necessarily not agree with independence for Scotland?

And yet, and yet, England was joined to Scotland, largely because Scotland happened to have a suitable king to hand.

Logically, England should be voting whether or not to leave Scotland, not the other way around...

p.s. I think it's probably the silliest idea in the last ten years of political history. Salmond has no policies beyond isolationism; no batna and no policy to manage when he inevitably has to fall on his sword once the No vote wins. His deputy is clearly positioning herself to take over from him, but she's made no noises to encourage any optimism that she has any non-isolationist thoughts either.

Good question. The stated position could imply that anyone English would not believe in an independent Scotland because well... they are English!! Which, of course, is rubbish. This is more about an reasonable laypersons debate on what we know about the pros and cons of the Union breaking up.

I certainly don't know the details, and have not investigated, but from a basic financial perspective, difficult to see how this can benefit either country.

On the point of Westminster not representing the entire Union's interests, that's a fair point, and the point to change in the long run, if it would every be possible. Politicians to me are corrupt by definition, in some countries more than others. Gotta say we are lucky compared to a lot of countries in the world.

Forgot to add, I don't get a vote as I am English, but if I did, it would be 'No'

Lego I know a good few English that would be more than happy with Scotland gaining independence. One comment heard when Salmon was trying to load the Yes vote by giving 16 year olds the vote was "if he really wants a yes vote, give the vote to us".

There are many in England who believe we will be better off without the Scots. I'm not one of them. I do believe though, if you go, you go. And no sitting North of the border relying on protection from the South. Although it works for the Canadians.

Some interesting points of view so far and I have not really looked in depth at the pros & cons either way but in simple terms I can't see how Scottish independence can be of benefit long term either financially or economically.
I get the politics of local representation debate but you have to take the Union for what is is and work with it not split it up surely ?
I hope the answer is No.

Ultimately, will Scotland truly be better off as a fully independent nation?
Generally, most people in the rest of the UK, believe we will be worse off without Scotland.
If it is not guaranteed Scotland is better off, why take the risk?
Trouble is voting for a No or the status quo, has limited electrol appeal?
The UK, despite our problems, happens to be one of the wealthiest nations on earth, collectively punching about our weight.
Are we looking at the beginning of the end....

Good grief practically turned into a farce already. In all seriousness forget about past history & stick to the main agenda, do you think Scotland will better off as an independent country. I'm all for a bit of banter thrown in for good measure, but there are just some silly ill thought out naive comments.

Some time ago I honestly thought that this would a resounding no, but with all the scare mongering from the no camp south of the boarder I'm not so sure. Some up here think they've shot themselves in the foot. One thing that the Scots don't like is being told what they can or cannot do.

Remember, this is not getting away from the nasty English for those who want independence, this is about what they see for Scotland's future. For me I'm happy being in the UK, but I'm a fiercely proud Scotsman, if you can grasp that.

I will leave it at that for now.